Emperor Karl of Austria & Empress Zita, their family, Part II

[Robert_Hall]

Eric, I have studied and taught Catholic theology and doctrain for a LONG time. The miracle nonsense is mere PR. Do NOT tell me I am mistaken. If you care to read the tabloids and get your information that way, so be it. However, I can cite the Catholic encyclopaedia  if you like.

[Eric_Lowe]

That is always been written about that...including sources from the Vatican (even documentaries which they talk about this subject). If you say the Vatican is lying to the rest of the world about what they consider saints, I will take your word on it. I have been born a Catholic and went to Catholic schools and maybe they are all lying to me too, it is no sweat since I left that particular church. 

[Robert_Hall]

I am quite aware of what the Vatican says. If you want an argument about this, I can best you easily.  For instance, how do 267 Ugandan martyrs come up with 2 miracles EACH ?
 But, back to Karl. He is a venerable man, faith or not. He tried to  bring an end to a horrid war, was betrayed and  bore his burden in a Christlike manner. [sound familiar?]  Therefore he is Blessed and worthy of example to others.

[Eric_Lowe]

Well...I just want to say that in the Greek/Russian Church that if you die a martyr's death like Ella, you are automatically a saint. Otherwise, according to what the Catholic Church says, you need two miracles to be consider a saint. It is the same deal with Mother Theresa & Pope John Paul II, both did NOT die a martyr's death.  That is what the information given to us by the Vatican. So I was a bit curious about the situation with Karl, since he did not die a martyr's death, so he will need two miracles (according to what information the Catholic Church gives out-I have a lot of info on this). However if you say the Catholic Church is giving wrong info out, then we do not have to debate this any longer. 

[Robert_Hall]

I am not saying the Church is giving out wrong information. The miracle business is just an addition, not a requirement. None of the apostles were canonised, nor did they preform miracles.  Most so-called saints have not. As I said, ANYONE who does in the faith, in good order, is  a saint. All it means is that they are in the presence of god. Some are worthy of recognition and veneration. Others remain basically anonymous. One does not have to die a martyr. It helps, but is not necessary.
 Now I am finished discussing this with you.

[Eric_Lowe]

Lets go back to Karl, saint or not. He was an Emperor and a good man. That is enough for me. I read somewhere that Karl was very religious because of his mother Josefa of Saxony.

[KarlandZita]

 Zita and Charles going out of a church after the celebration of a mass to Funchal :

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

Is there a campaign (is that the right word?) to have Empress Zita beatified and/or canonized also along with her husband?

Just asking???

Larry

[Greenowl]

Hi Larry,

yes indeed, there is an 'Association for the Beatification of Empress Zita' at the Abbaye Saint-Pierre, 1, Place Dom Gueranger, 72300 Solesmes, France. I believe it is managed/organized by the Bishop of Le Mans.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

Thanks Greenowl, for your swift and very informative reply.
I think I will write to them and support their effort(s) to speed Zita on her way.  I greatly admire her and she lead an exemplory life in spite of all the trials thrown her way.

Cheers to you also,
Larry

[Greenowl]

No problem Larry, always glad to be of assistance. I think that they are on the Internet. Hopefully you will find them under the following address: http://www.beatification-imperatrice-zita.org

The Empress is described as a great example of faith and hope in the face of trials, unshakable trust in God and as a model of love, service and fidelity.

Cheers,
GREENOWL

[Rani]

Archduke Felix passed away, the last link to the Habsburg monarchy

HIRH Archduke Felix, last surviving son of the Blessed Emperor Karl, died at 1.30 pm on the evening of the 6th September (5.30 a.m. European time on 7th) in Mexico. He was aged 95 years. He leaves three sons and four daughters.

source: http://members3.boardhost.com/EuropeanRoyals/msg/1315381106.html

May he rest in peace!

[Eric_Lowe]

Sad that the old generation is going . Things will never be the same again.

[Kalafrana]

Did Archduke Felix live in Mexico, since the report says he died there?

Ann

[Zukunftsseele]

Yes, he did. During his time in exile Archduke Felix has lived in Portugal, Belgium, Mexico and the United States. He currently lives in the colonia of San Ángel in Mexico City.
He has built up a number of successful businesses in Mexico and Brussels and has worked as a marketing consultant.