Duke Ferdinand of Parma, his wife Maria Amalia,their family

[prinzheinelgirl]

Link to a very nice miniature of Maria Amalia (supposedly as the newly married Duchess of Parma), circa 1770:

http://www.wilnitsky.com/scripts/redgallery1.dll/details?No=36177

[Eric_Lowe]

She looked very pretty here. I could imagine "the glamour" that her sister Maria Cristina talked about must be in full force.

[prinzheinelgirl]

For me, the prettiest ones were Maria Elisabeth, Maria Amalia, and Maria Josepha. And none of the sisters looked as glamorous as Maria Amalia in her prime.  Too bad she let herself go in the subsequent years, but I also think it didn't bother her much.  Getting back to the pretty miniature, it resembled one of her earlier portraits (in red dress, perhaps aged 13-15) and another miniature done in 1780. Of course, the latter showed her as no longer a beauty but I can still see some resemblance (an older version with sharper features). Here it is....

http://www.wilnitsky.com/scripts/redgallery1.dll/details?No=27121


 

[prinzheinelgirl]

Their cousin the Duke of Chablais would have been a good alternative even though he wasn't a splendid match; he had some money, his own palace and a duchy, after all. Even after her smallpox, he was keen on her and seemed to have hoped that Franz Stephan's wish (for either Mimi or ME to marry him) would be honoured. It would've been nice if MT honoured it but she didn't.  The arguments that they (Austrians) didn't have money to provide for ME splendidly rang hollow.  Joseph gave up almost half of his inheritance from FS for his siblings' establishment.  Half of it went to Mimi's dowry and the rest, I guess, to the Bourbon marriages (the dowriew which Louis XV thought were rather small).  Certainly, MT could have supplemented it to make room for ME... but nothing.  ME may have been one of MT's favoured children due to her beauty but after the smallpox....... was another matter. It shows me another side of MT, which isn't nice. I also think MT didn't want the match because she didn't like the Savoys, plain and simple.  So her dislike of them was greater than her inclination to honour what her husband wanted?

But hey, let's not forget Karl of Zweibrucken who asked for ME's hand in 1770 or 1771!  What would Maria Amalia have thought of it?!?! I can't imagine her brooding that much, though.  Once in Parma, she seemed to have new sets of problems and new experiences to contend and enjoy.....

[Gabriel Antonio]

I have found these comments on Maria Amalia and her sisters, and the painters and musicans she interacted with to be very interesting. Thank you to everyone for sharing what they know and also the links- For example the link to learn the life of the Portuguese painter who I had never heard of.

I have seen the painting of Maria Amalia by Alexander Roslin in the Wikipedia article (a painter I am starting to learn more about) and I think it is very natural and beautiful. From this article I learned MA had more children in her late 30s who did not live more than 2 or 3 years and then also twins who died at birth when she was 43!
It must have been very sad to lose them but also very dangerous before the days of modern medicine to bear children at such an age. (Maria Carolina's last two children were born when she was 40 and 41 and Leopold's wife was 42 for her last child- Beethoven's future student Archduke Rudolph.)

Then, for MA to lose both her husband as well as Parma in 1802, son Louis in 1803 and her daughter Caroline in 1804, one family loss after another shortly before she herself died. Very sobering to think of these tragedies she had to go through near the end of her life after being the beautiful and glamorous princess in Vienna prior to her marriage. Does anyone know after she was forced out of Parma why she ended up going to live in Prague instead of Vienna? Since she was in Prague was she able to go to Saxony to visit Caroline and her grandchildren?
I would very much enjoy reading a translation of her biography written in Italian which was mentioned. Not very likely.

[Svetabel]

Once again I should remind to all posters here: Please stay in topic!

I had to move last posts on Maria Elizabeth to the proper thread:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2743.300#bot

Don't give in Mr.Lowe's provocative remarks that can lead to off-top.

[Eric_Lowe]

The copy of the Italian biography on Maria Amalia is in UCLA.

[prinzheinelgirl]

Link to a nice miniature of a young Louis that was auctioned...

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/20328321_luigi-figlio-di-ferdinando-duca-di-parma-e-re

[ivanushka]

What a lovely picture of young Louis.  He seems to have been a very good looking young man.  Apparently Amalia's eldest daughter Caroline was very good looking too - as a child at least.

[Eric_Lowe]

Don Luis looked like his mother (more Germanic than Spanish/Italian) and when he arrived in Paris, people saw his aunt (Queen Marie Antoinette) in his looks.

[prinzheinelgirl]

What a lovely picture of young Louis.  He seems to have been a very good looking young man.  Apparently Amalia's eldest daughter Caroline was very good looking too - as a child at least.

Based on his later portraits, he seemed to have retained his looks into adulthood.  The Marquis de Bombelles commented on his fine looks when he visited Parma in 1791.  His sister Caroline appeared to have looked more like their father Ferdinand later in life (like their sister Maria Antonia). But she did not seem to have inherited their father's figure.

Don Luis looked like his mother (more Germanic than Spanish/Italian) and when he arrived in Paris, people saw his aunt (Queen Marie Antoinette) in his looks.

That's because Maria Amalia and Marie Antoinette took after their father Franz Stephan in looks.  Although, IMHO, Maria Amalia resembled Franz Stephan more than Marie Antoinette did and I see more Maria Amalia than Marie Antoinette in Louis. Based on a childhood portrait, it was his sister Carlotta Maria who was (almost) a carbon copy of their aunt - IMHO, everything except MA's "pinched" (sour expression) look as a young child (at roughly the same age).  

[Eric_Lowe]

Indeed. He must be a very good looking man with striking looks when he appeared in Paris. Although apart from looks, people in France thought of him either stupid or sickly.

[ivanushka]

Clearly he had pretty good genes!  Maria Amalia was considered a beautiful woman by many when younger and judging my his portraits, Ferdinand of Parma had quite an attractive face - certainly far more so than Ferdinand of Naples!

[Eric_Lowe]

Yes. I think Infanta Luisa of Spain fell for Don Luis (unlike her sister) and married him...mostly for his looks. He was the best looking man in Goya's painting of the Spanish Royal Family. He was depicted as a blond man.

[prinzheinelgirl]

Louis was far, far from being stupid. Perhaps it was his shyness, ill health, and being uncomfortable (he clearly did not like Napoleon so would not have gone to any of the festivities arranged by the latter gladly...)  that made him appear awkward while in Paris. I'm certain he was far more intelligent than the people who criticised him as "stupid". Not only was he very good at languages, good enough to translate even Greek under a  pseudonym, he also built quite a solid reputation in the natural sciences and wanted to become an industrialist. Just imagine how much more he could've accomplished had he enjoyed good health and he was barely 30 when he died. In terms of scientific bent and entrepreneurial spirit, he took after his grandfather Franz Stephan....

Louise-Elisabeth described her son Ferdinand as "beautiful'; don't know if that was just mother's pride but she went on to describe him as looking like his aunt and her sister, Marie Adelaide of France. This princess, together with Henriette, was the best of looking of Louis XV's daughters, IMHO.