Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death, Part II

[Carolath Habsburg]

Sorry, i cant see the resemblance.

[Imperial_Grounds]

Neither do I.... And whats the use of all these pretenders? We have the body buried in full state, so that leaves little space for those anyway.... Annoys me a little.

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

I don't think honestly that both men resemble at nothing neither the Emperor FJ nor the Crown Prince!! Did they claimed this when they were alive?

[RealAnastasia]

There's a certain ressemblance, but that's all. If this claimant has some doubt about his roots, he may always have his DNA test done.

My granny was very similar to Queen Elizabeth of England, her mother to Queen Victoria...and we never claimed to be "illegitimate Windsors"!

There's sorta of hysteria about being related to royalty. I'm a Monarchist myself and I'm not interested in being related to any character I read about.

RealAnastasia.

[Pezzazz]

Ahh I wondered what had happened to you, "Pezzaz", in my month of absence:p(fell out of internet)

Also, I intend to start 'Crime At Mayerling' at last(it's on the bookshelf for ages). Curious to read it.

..................in this chapter a 'MMe. Baltazzi', lady-in-waiting to Queen Olga of Greece,  is mentioned and now I wonder if this woman might have been related to Helene and, by any chance, might have been around at the time of Mayerling.

Hey Imperial Grounds -- delighted to see you back.  The 'Crime At Mayerling' is one on my list too, although from excerpts I've read it seems the skull was damaged too extensively to make any firm conclusions about a bullet hole.  Could anyone tell for sure if it was damaged by the grave robbers or if it was put into the casket in that condition?

Was Baltazzi a common name in Greece?  It could be the same since they tended to run in those circles.

I've shifted my interest a little more towards Bismarck from learning of his involvement in Rudolph's death -- or at least I satisfied my own curiosity in that is how it happened.  Here is Bismarck's own exact words in his "Reflections & Reminiscences" about Rudolph's flirting with France:  "...........no words are needed to show how greatly aggravated would then be the peril of Germany".  Bismarck was nothing if not practical -- and no doubt he saw destroying Rudolph's reputation and then killing him as nothing more than self-defense.

I've been reading "An Uncommon Woman" now about Empress Friedrich but it's mostly about Bismarck, and he sure did a number on the Crown Prince and Princess of Germany too, or at least that's how the story goes.   I try mostly to keep an open mind since I know how the truth can be twisted into something unrecognizable by those with motive, and that is without a doubt what happened to Rudolph............and probably to Wilhelm II and Bismarck too since none of them had the opportunity to write their own history.  It reminds me of what Churchill said ~~ history will be kind to him because he would be the one to write it.

Since pictures can say a thousand words though, here's a couple of Rudolph that say it all about the twisted spin to which he was subjected, even by the most reputable biographers:  The portrait (Fritz Judtmann's book) on the right is made from the photo on the left.

Right-click to enlarge:

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

There's a certain ressemblance, but that's all. If this claimant has some doubt about his roots, he may always have his DNA test done.

My granny was very similar to Queen Elizabeth of England, her mother to Queen Victoria...and we never claimed to be "illegitimate Windsors"!

There's sorta of hysteria about being related to royalty. I'm a Monarchist myself and I'm not interested in being related to any character I read about.

RealAnastasia.

Well, something that you mention here is quite true, many claimants have argued that they resemble the ones they pretended to be (or to be related) and many really resembled the ones they cliamed (like a pair of Romanov claimants). It didn't meant that they were really those persons and DNA is really more accurate to prove something that only being speculating.

[Pezzazz]

which has actors really resembling the characters(I get dizzy looking at it, Rudolf has the beard and the moustache... So looks like him, and so goes for Mary and the rest of the people portrayed)..................................

Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV9nC4jBJCQ

Very nice Imperial.............but I don't so much see the resemblance.  Rudolph had this very delicate, fine-tuned appearance but with strength too........much like how Princess Louise described her brother-in-law.  It does seem to be the sort of look that is quite hard to capture in art and other media apparently.  

Have you started to read 'Crime At Mayerling ' yet.   I'm reading this quite interesting book called 'Time of Murder at Mayerling' by Ann Dukthas written in 1996.  The author has done his research thoroughly and knows all the official facts which he then puts into a fictional setting with a Columbo styled detective-Highlander sort of character who then analyzes the given evidence and possible conclusions in the role of papal envoy.  

It's similar to my approach to the mystery, though from a different, more technical perspective.  He concludes that it was someone close to Rudolph who murdered him (read from book review) but I'm not to that part yet, but I'm so curious to know if he came to suspect the same ones -- namely Prince Phillip of Coburg and Count Hoyos and possibly other "friends".  

A couple points he's brought up that I hadn't considered before was:

1)  Why were they in such a hurry to bury Mary Vetsera before anyone had the chance to examine her?

2)  Why did no one hear any gunshots that night?   If there was a gun fired at Mayerling that night, even if it was muffled by bedclothes, it would have been heard.  

[Imperial_Grounds]

Well, I am not refering to that movie as the ones with the 'looks'.... That is a hungarian movie, which tells the story through an investigation and weaves all we know into short sections - from Rudolf's boyhood up to the aftermath of Mayerling -.... Which is why I like that movie most. It is not too much of a romantic drama but simply a statement of facts(or what the official story states to be so). Also I watched the french movie 'Le Secret De Mayerling', which is interesting because it goos far beyond the deaths at Mayerling. It starts after the tragedy, shows all the misinformation that went on at the Court, Countess Larisch who gets banished and La Vetsera who comes begging for her daughter. Also, it shows the burial of both Mary and Rudolf... And we go then in flashback back to when Rudolf and Mary are about to meet. After that the romance develops mosty like in other movies, with Mary being a naive schoolgirle with a crush and Rudolf a desperate man who eventually does fall in love. He asks for an annulment, the emperor forbids him and they fight... At the ball we get to see a great show, with again some fiction, as Mary refuses to bow for Stephanie. As Rudolf and Mary are at Mayerling it becomes evident the Germans plot to kill Rudolf and they send one to Mayerling. At Mayerling Rudolf and Mary await news from Hungary(the plot is in there too), which is discovered and Rudolf loses all his titles and rights... He is advised to go to his father and reason with him, but states it is too late for that, then Mary enters and says she will share his fate. Thus the stage is set for a suicide. As Rudolf feels himself unable to kill her and wants to live with her he wakes her up and tells them they'll live.... But at that moment the German envoy reaches Mayerling, gets in and kills them both in an instance.

Certainly a whole new dramatic take on the events.

As for the book, I have not started reading it yet... Don't know when to start, as I have both the memoirs of Princess Stephanie and Countess Larisch to read too(which I've read parts of in other books, but that's it)

[Carolath Habsburg]

Teen Rudolf



 

[Imperial_Grounds]

He was handsome as a teen. No wonder, his parents both were great-looking people... It's amazing too, that his own daughter had a striking resemblance to her grandmother.

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

Form the site habsburger.net, "The family of the Crown Prince Rudolph, at the gardens of the Laxenburg". He's on horseback, the girl at the carriage must be little Erzsi and the lady at her side the Crown Princess Staphanie. The others must be servants and ladies.

[Zukunftsseele]

I don't know where to put this, so I'm sorry if this is the wrong place for the thread.
I am searching for photos / portraits of Mizzi Caspar, the mistress and close friend of Crownprince Rudolf of Austria. I only found this one and a portrait but I am sure there must be more photos, etc out there.

[Carolath Habsburg]

i think i ve seen a lot of pictures of her in rudolfs topic. check there.

[Zukunftsseele]

Thanks. But there were only one or two in the topics.

[Carolath Habsburg]

Hmm..

Well the only one "new" i found was this one, among other women vinculateds with Rudolf