Author Topic: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3  (Read 183967 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #255 on: October 13, 2012, 11:14:57 AM »
Marie Coburg did pull rank when she ordered Missy to give birth in Coburg (the child was Mignon) after her daughter;'s scandal erupted. She told Onkel if Missy was not allowed to go, he will have to hear from both Queen Victoria & The Tsar of Russia. Karol I gave in to the combined threat. Yes. Missy should be allowed to marry Georgie. But history would then be very different.

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #256 on: October 15, 2012, 02:40:12 AM »
George V and Queen Mary had a happy marriage in their own particular fashion.

I have never liked Marie of Rumania - all those affairs and childrten of doubtful paternity.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #257 on: October 15, 2012, 10:12:40 AM »
As happy as arranged marriages go. All the children of King George V had issues. David was afraid of responsibilities, Bertie struggles with speech and had knock knees, Henry was a drunkard and George was depressive, an drug addict and bisexual. Actually not much better than Missy's bunch.

I think Missy & Georgie would have been happy if they got married. Georgie was "in love" with her unlike May being forced on to him.

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #258 on: October 15, 2012, 11:25:06 AM »
I was thinking more in terms of George V and Mary themselves rather than their children.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #259 on: October 15, 2012, 11:39:29 AM »
George did not love or desire May, but was almost forced upon him. They developed a relationship, but unlike someone like Missy, she always obeyed her husband unlike Missy or even Queen Alexandra. I think Missy can bring Georgie out and less into himself.

Offline CountessKate

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1085
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #260 on: October 15, 2012, 01:52:42 PM »
George did not love or desire May, but was almost forced upon him. They developed a relationship, but unlike someone like Missy, she always obeyed her husband unlike Missy or even Queen Alexandra. I think Missy can bring Georgie out and less into himself.

I don't think there was any special reason for George to write to Mary during their engagement that "Thank God we both understand each other, & I think it really unnecessary for me to tell you how deep my love for you my darling is & I feel it growing stronger & stronger every time I see you; although I may appear shy & cold", and "It is just two months today that we were engaged, how quick the time goes, I loved you then very much, now I adore you, I feel so happy that I don't know how to thank you enough for having made me so" if he didn't genuinely feel happy in the relationship from the start, although of course it was an arranged match.  Both he and Mary were very shy with overt expressions of affection, but both were able to do so on paper, and Mary on their wedding day sent George a pencilled note to say "I love you with all my heart."  In that respect Marie's desire for more overt romantic expression does not appear to be a good fit with George compared to the genuine happiness he found with Mary.  His extreme conventionality seems more likely to have been shocked by Marie's flamboyance and rather than drawing him out it seems more likely that it would cause him great discomfort and annoyance, which he undoubtedly felt with his mother-in-law, Mary Adelaide who was a very larger-than-life individual.  Given that Mary sacrificed her comfort and interests to him, spending hours on shoots etc. when she would rather have been at home with a good book or inspecting some antiques, I think George was very fortunate in Mary and I don't think he would have got any of that support from Marie - as her letters to her mother show, hers was not a personality which would have put up with George's lack of charisma for very long.   

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #261 on: October 16, 2012, 04:01:33 AM »
Countess Kate

I agree. George V and Queen Mary were a very good 'fit'. George and Marie were fine as pals, but they would soon have got impatient with one another had they got married. And then Marie would have been having affairs.

Ann

Offline rachel5a

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #262 on: October 16, 2012, 12:52:05 PM »
So who would be ideal for Marie?

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1959
  • Olga.Tatiana.Maria.Anastasia + Alexei
    • View Profile
    • Romanovs of Russia
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #263 on: October 16, 2012, 01:03:14 PM »
Whats the point of these useless what ifs, and Eric as a historian and an author, why ask should questions? you know the answer.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #264 on: October 16, 2012, 09:15:43 PM »
I think it is highly speculative that Missy would have affairs if she had married Georgie. Nando was a virtual stranger and never a good fit. I think May allowed George to be his more selfish self, while a more independent Missy would have forced him out of his comfort zone. One must remember that May always felt insignificant as a poor morganetic princess, and never able to fend for herself (even being bullied by the acid tongued and jealous sister-in-law,Victoria of Wales). Missy would have no problem asserting herself. Had she married George, the loss would only be to Romania.

Offline CountessKate

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1085
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #265 on: October 17, 2012, 02:46:52 AM »
I think it is highly speculative that Missy would have affairs if she had married Georgie. Nando was a virtual stranger and never a good fit. I think May allowed George to be his more selfish self, while a more independent Missy would have forced him out of his comfort zone. One must remember that May always felt insignificant as a poor morganetic princess, and never able to fend for herself (even being bullied by the acid tongued and jealous sister-in-law,Victoria of Wales). Missy would have no problem asserting herself. Had she married George, the loss would only be to Romania.

The whole premise is speculative, not just whether Marie might have had affairs. But looking at actual facts, Marie really did have affairs, and not because Ferdinand was "a virtual stranger" (which he wasn't when she had the affairs) but because her marriage partner did not live up to her romantic aspirations.  Would George have been any different?  I hardly think there is a single biographer of George, even the most sycophantic, who would support the notion of him as a romantic ideal, for Marie or anyone else, and the likelihood is that Marie would have reacted exactly as she did in Romania, and found someone(s) else.  The evidence of George moving out of his comfort zone in relatively small ways (dealing with an intrusive and ebullient mother-in-law, having a son with a stammer) showed that he reacted rather badly to such a situation and it certainly didn't encourage him to be less selfish.  How he would have reacted to a flagrantly unfaithful spouse, very much outside his comfort zone, would not have boded well for any marriage he entered into.  Marie's marrying George and thus saving Mary from being bullied by her in-laws (which is severely overstating the case) or George himself, would not have been a matter of any gratitude from Mary, who was extremely thankful for being given the only career a princess could expect in those days, which was marriage.  For Mary, at least, Marie's marriage to George would have been a loss.

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #266 on: October 17, 2012, 03:52:17 AM »
Countess Kate

I agree. George was, ultimately, a decent plodder, and his marriage to Mary 'worked'.


Rachel

I don't think there was anybody who would have been ideal husband material for Marie, not among the 'available' princes of the day.

We have to remember when discussing marriage prospects for particular individuals that there were never many candidates at any one time, given the restrictions of religion and contemporary views on what were proper ages.


Everybody

I have made clear my dislike of Marie (I just cannot see beyond the affairs!), could people explain why they like her so much.

Ann

Offline historyfan

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #267 on: October 17, 2012, 09:12:35 AM »
I don't think I "like" Marie, per se. If I were a contemporary of hers, I probably would have seen her as "over the top" theatrical, dramatic, flamboyant, as some did. You've made good points about what a marriage to George V would probably have meant, and I concede that argument. : )  As a day-to-day person, I don't think she was all that likeable.

However...as a Queen, she knew just how to use what she had, and she was a quick study. In politics, at least, she stood behind Nando and bolstered him.

And, she did take beautiful photos. ; )

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1959
  • Olga.Tatiana.Maria.Anastasia + Alexei
    • View Profile
    • Romanovs of Russia
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #268 on: October 17, 2012, 12:40:05 PM »

Kalafrana - I understand you completely when it comes to Marie. I too personally can't stand adultery or people whom sleep around besides that I like Marie - I don't adore her but I do find her very interesting person and royal. 
plus I try to be a good Christian - blame the sin not the sinner. If I too was force in a loveless marriage and considered a beauty possibly i too would have affairs. Ferdinand was no saint himself, he had mistresses and even treated Marie as a mistress not as his wife. But i too like him as he had the balls to suck it up and consider all Marie's children his (even though without a doubt the youngest baby Prince Mircea wasn't his but i do believe the other five was his). They did in some way had a happy yet rocky marriage and understood each other over time.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 16999
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Queen Maria of Romania, Part 3
« Reply #269 on: October 17, 2012, 04:26:30 PM »
I don't know why they think Missy was such a sinner. She was smart, beautiful and romantic. Missy had a liking for Georgie and would be delighted to be with her beloved Aunt Alix. One has to remember that Aunty Elisabeth (Queen of Romania) was one that inspired her to be interested in Romanian Folk culture and writing. Aunt Alix might led Missy to be more of a fashion plate than a writer. Married at 16/17, she was very malleable to her surroundings.