Queen Marie Antoinette, Part II

[miki_nastya]

What color was her hair and eyes?

[CountessKate]

What color was her hair and eyes?

Antonia Fraser in her biography of Marie Antoinette wrote "her hair was fair: a light ash colour that would probably deepen with the years", and her eyes were blue.

[Vanya Ivanova]

I can't praise Antonia Fraser's book 'Marie Antoinette' enough, its a wonderful biography, I actually cried when it described the fate of the poor Princess de Lamballe. I live very near the Royal Crescent in Bath where she initially fled to and rented a house ( no1 which is now a museum http://www.bath-preservation-trust.org.uk/?id=3) but alas she returned to France and suffered a terrible fate out of true loyalty to her friend.

Another really fascinating book is 'Marie-Therese- The fate of Marie-Antoinette's daughter' by Susan Nagel I read it cover to cover in one evening! She was an amazing woman who quite naturally was scarred by her experiences. Post revolutionary french politics is such a maze with all the republics and restorations but this book sets it out in such an interesting and relevant way.

[Robert_Hall]

Could not agree more Vanya I.  Both books are essential reading to anyone interested in the subject.

[timfromengland]

 I thought ... The Queen's Confession .... was good
 (prob because it is in  first person....)

by Victoria Holt ....
(another name for Jean Plaidy )
( why do authors write under different names,  I cant understand it ! )
( Even Jean Plaidy is a pseudonym )

[Prince of Tides]

I have just seen "Les adieux a la reine." I have mixed feelings about it. M-A is depicted as frivole, as a likely lesbian. The movie shows how despised M-A was even by those closest to her (e.g. her robe master). Louis XVI, however, gets a very sympathetic portrait. The movie is very compelling, shot on location at Versailles. The vantage point from downstairs, from the servants' level, adds a feeling of harsh realism. Most actors do a great job, especially Diane Kruger in the leading role. Anybody else who has seen it and wants to share his/her impressions?

[koloagirl]

Aloha from Kaua'i!

I have read the book it is based on and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I have seen clips from the film, but don't anticipate it coming to the small island where I live - Netflix will be my friend!

Is it playing in the United States yet (other than film festivals) - or just Europe?

Janet R.

[Prince of Tides]

I saw it on a transatlantic Air France flight. I am not aware of it being shown in American movie theaters outside of film festivals.

I found Madame Campan's role in the movie quite interesting. While she is M-A's devoted first lady of the bedchamber, she does appear to be critical of her master at least in one scene. Her memoirs are a first hand account of M-A's life that I now feel is a must read in order to understand what really happenned in the ill-fated queen's life. Here they are free of charge:
http://www.authorama.com/memoirs-of-marie-antoinette-1.html

[koloagirl]

Aloha from Kaua'i!

That is actually pretty exciting - I am flying to Paris in September on a Air France flight from LAX direct to CDG - while that is a distance away in time - maybe that film will still be available on their in-flight movies - I can hope at least!!

Janet R.

[Prince of Tides]

Aloha!

A fifth excerpt from "Les adieux..." has been added recently on the French site I recommended a few months ago. It shows an intimate moment between M-A and la duchesse de Polignac:
http://video.cinefil.com/video/ee20f2c24ccs.html

[Prince of Tides]

M-A threw away her last chance to save her and her husband's throne and even life by rejecting La Fayette's help offer. It is as if she had subconsciously chosen death over life: "Partout en province et dans les milieux modérés l'indignation fut générale on avait touché à la personne du roi [during the June 20, 1792 attack on the Tuilleries - my note]. Un mouvement contre-révolutionnaire assez fort se précisait et les Jacobins se sentaient minoritaires. Le 28 juin 1792 La Fayette revenu rapidement de l'armée, se présente à l'Assemblée où il dénonce au nom de l'armée les fauteurs de troubles et les clubs: l'Assemblée l'applaudit. A ce moment, avec le fort courant favorable au roi il aurait pu tenter un coup de force militaire pour rétablir le roi dans son autorité, mais la cour s'y oppose se moquant de ces " Don Quichotteries ", Marie-Antoinette dira même :" mieux vaut mourir que d'être sauvé par M. de La Fayette et les constitutionnels ". On rejette donc sa proposition et pire on le trahit en dénonçant son projet de profiter d'une revue militaire le lendemain pour marcher avec ses troupes sur les Jacobins.
La Fayette, découragé partit pour la frontière. Louis XVI venait de laisser passer son dernier espoir. Le mouvement de réaction qui avait suivi le 20 juin était fini."
Source: http://revolution.1789.free.fr/page-6.htm

Perhaps the pain of being separated from her true love (Axel Fersen and/or Gabrielle de Polignac) was too much for M-A to keep on living... What do you think?

[CountessKate]

M-A threw away her last chance to save her and her husband's throne and even life by rejecting La Fayette's help offer. It is as if she had subconsciously chosen death over life: "Partout en province et dans les milieux modérés l'indignation fut générale on avait touché à la personne du roi [during the June 20, 1792 attack on the Tuilleries - my note]. Un mouvement contre-révolutionnaire assez fort se précisait et les Jacobins se sentaient minoritaires. Le 28 juin 1792 La Fayette revenu rapidement de l'armée, se présente à l'Assemblée où il dénonce au nom de l'armée les fauteurs de troubles et les clubs: l'Assemblée l'applaudit. A ce moment, avec le fort courant favorable au roi il aurait pu tenter un coup de force militaire pour rétablir le roi dans son autorité, mais la cour s'y oppose se moquant de ces " Don Quichotteries ", Marie-Antoinette dira même :" mieux vaut mourir que d'être sauvé par M. de La Fayette et les constitutionnels ". On rejette donc sa proposition et pire on le trahit en dénonçant son projet de profiter d'une revue militaire le lendemain pour marcher avec ses troupes sur les Jacobins.
La Fayette, découragé partit pour la frontière. Louis XVI venait de laisser passer son dernier espoir. Le mouvement de réaction qui avait suivi le 20 juin était fini."
Source: http://revolution.1789.free.fr/page-6.htm

Perhaps the pain of being separated from her true love (Axel Fersen and/or Gabrielle de Polignac) was too much for M-A to keep on living... What do you think?

I don’t feel there is very strong evidence that Marie Antoinette thought that Lafayette was her last hope of survival, and turning him down was effectively suicide, but rather think this was a somewhat dramatic repudiation of a political alliance, albeit in pretty desperate circumstances.  By that stage, many of the constitutionalists were perceived as little better than jacobins and in any case, Lafayette’s behaviour was perceived to be rather equivocal and he was distrusted by both sides.  She may equally have considered that she would have been flinging herself from the frying pan into the fire. 

[Prince of Tides]

Clearly she did not trust La Fayette -- and foolishly so -- despite the many proofs of his loyalty. He had saved her first from an angry mob by appearing together with her on the balcony of the palace at Versailles on October 6, 1789 and a second time when he lied that she and Louis had been "abducted" by "enemies of the revolution" during their flight to Varennes in June 1791.

What makes me say that that M-A desired death more than life was that despite the fact that she had narrowly escaped mob lynching just a few days before on June 20, 1792 in the Tuilleries, M-A still preferred death to any help from La Fayette, help which would have militarily restored the royal authority, albeit a constitutional, not absolute one.

Perhaps she was ready to die for her ideal of absolute monarchy when rejecting La Fayette's help for a constitutional monachy, but something makes me doubt that. She had two little children which would have had to die also together with their mother (the Dauphin did share her fate, not on a scaffold, but died nevertheless as result of purposeful neglect); however, no mother would sacrifice that much on the altar of any political idealism. That's why I think she was probably subconsciously desiring death for other reasons, not political, but for matters of the heart (such as missing Axel and/or Gabrielle)...

[CountessKate]

It's possible, but to be honest the decision, if looked at in the light of what Marie Antoinette believed to be Lafayette's untrustworthiness at the time, appears to have more to do with practical common sense than with desiring death.  Great ladies of the eighteenth century would always "rather die" than surrender their honour, and deal shamefully with their enemies; I'm not convinced that there's evidence that Marie Antoinette thought there really was absolutely no way out other than by taking up Lafayette's offer of help at that stage.

[Prince of Tides]

I doubt she had any common sense left in her at that late stage in her tragedy: she was still dreaming of her nephew in Vienna invading France and putting to death many Frenchmen to restore her and Louis as absolute monarchs. And after the Austrians were to eventually leave, once the restoration achieved, how would she stay on her throne with so many enemies around?! She had no common sense!

Rejecting the only help available after being almost mob lynched a second time in the Tuilleries?! No common sense!  

Once we throw out common sense, what is left is emotions, strong ones, such as love (for whomever). Only such strong emotions could help make any sense of her senseless decisions.