Author Topic: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id  (Read 10839 times)

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Offline blessOTMA

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Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« on: December 02, 2010, 04:05:40 AM »
In this photo of Olga and Tatiana in their court dresses , they are of course wearing their Order of St Catherine star and sash...but also another medal is visible...at the collar. Can some one please id this medal and it's ribbon colour?

I am currently doing a  painting of Marie, Olga and Tatiana based on the 1915 photo of them dressed for the last state funeral of Imperial Russia. I believe I see this medal and ribbon , but  near their star...which would be at variance with the court dress arrangement ...any help would be greatly appreciated!

 Thank you! 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Mike

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 10:56:16 AM »
It's most probably the commemorative medal for the 300th anniversary of the House of Romanovs:

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 08:36:16 PM »
Ah thank you! ...however the ribbon has a different shape ...like a bow and appears dark. It can be most clearly seen on TN's dress
right at the collar in the photo I posted yesterday......And  here is Olga wearing it on her court dress  earlier than 1913...on her left shoulder

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Mike

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2010, 02:05:28 AM »
The ribbon's shape doesn't matter, ladies usually wore all medals in a manner shown on your photo. The time is important. I've seen colored versions of this Olga's and other photos, and the ribbon is shown light blue, like St. Andrew's. Bur the coloring was made in our time, and I've no idea whether the right color was chosen.

Offline Daniel Briere

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 01:11:54 PM »
bless OTMA, on all your photos the grand duchesses are indeed wearing the Order of St. Catherine (Grand Cross). Its sash was scarlet red with silver threads woven into its edges. The sashes seen on the 1915 photo seem to be of a lighter color because it was taken outdoors under bright sun. According to the Order’s Statutes, the grand duchesses received this Order at their baptism (the princesses of the Blood had to wait until their coming of age). More info on Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Catherine

The Grand Cross badge isn’t seen on your photos as it was worn on the left hip.

A photo of a full set with a sash (which apparently belonged to GD Militza Nikolaevna and was sold at Christie’s 3 years ago) can be seen here :
http://storage.canalblog.com/03/14/119589/19572912.jpg

The grand duchesses did NOT receive the Order of St. Andrew. The only women who were entitled to it were the empresses (ruling or consort) who received upon their Coronation. The last woman to receive it (before the Revolution) was Empress Alexandra Feodorovna on May 14, 1896.

As for the small round medals, I must admit I hadn’t paid attention to them before now and will do some more research. Its ribbon seems to be red.

I have found this photo of Olga wearing 2 medals :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Grand_Duchess_Olga_in_court_dress_1910-2.jpg
The smallest one is the same as on the other photos (and does look Russian to me) but the larger one on the right looks Foreign to me. I’ll look into it.

Olga
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Grand_Duchess_Olga_in_court_dress_1910-2.jpg

Hope it helps!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 01:16:25 PM by Daniel Briere »
Daniel Briere

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 03:33:20 PM »
As for the small round medals, I must admit I hadn’t paid attention to them before now and will do some more research. Its ribbon seems to be red.

I have found this photo of Olga wearing 2 medals :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Grand_Duchess_Olga_in_court_dress_1910-2.jpg
The smallest one is the same as on the other photos (and does look Russian to me) but the larger one on the right looks Foreign to me. I’ll look into it.

For what it's worth, the portraits of Tatiana, Maria, and Anastasia from the same session don't show them wearing any medals. Perhaps the honors had something to do with Olga's age? I believe that formal session took place in 1911, making her 15-16 years old, depending on the time of year.
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2010, 11:55:34 PM »
Quote
The Grand Cross badge isn’t seen on your photos as it was worn on the left hip.
Interesting. Because that is exactly why I'm asking. In the 1915 photo , I see a dark bow on Olga's left side, near her hip...but no medal...perhaps it's lost in the folds of the dress ...or the bow is simply part of the funeral dress? ...but such bows are are part of decorations...so I wondered. It's right against the "star" next to her left arm. One of its end points is over the sash. It's hard to see because of the black on black embroidery band around the star.

Quote
A photo of a full set with a sash (which apparently belonged to GD Militza Nikolaevna and was sold at Christie’s 3 years ago) can be seen here :
http://storage.canalblog.com/03/14/119589/19572912.jpg
This is hugely helpful to me, thank you!  I realized the sashes were red and extra bright because of the sun ...but I'm glad to get it confirmed.
Quote
Hope it helps!
It has! Thank you!
 Here is a close up I found of the star. A friend has told me the words read " Love and Fatherland". Stunning.



"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Mike

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 04:03:56 AM »
It's rather "For Love and Fatherland".

Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 10:58:50 AM »
Oh my gosh, utterly, utterly gorgeous star!!
Good luck with your painting, blessOTMA! I can't wait to see it when it's finished!  :) :-*
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Offline Alexander1917

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 12:42:25 PM »
Quote
The Grand Cross badge isn’t seen on your photos as it was worn on the left hip.
Interesting. Because that is exactly why I'm asking. In the 1915 photo , I see a dark bow on Olga's left side, near her hip...but no medal...perhaps it's lost in the folds of the dress ...or the bow is simply part of the funeral dress? ...but such bows are are part of decorations...so I wondered. It's right against the "star" next to her left arm. One of its end points is over the sash. It's hard to see because of the black on black embroidery band around the star.

Quote
A photo of a full set with a sash (which apparently belonged to GD Militza Nikolaevna and was sold at Christie’s 3 years ago) can be seen here :
http://storage.canalblog.com/03/14/119589/19572912.jpg
This is hugely helpful to me, thank you!  I realized the sashes were red and extra bright because of the sun ...but I'm glad to get it confirmed.
Quote
Hope it helps!
It has! Thank you!
 Here is a close up I found of the star. A friend has told me the words read " Love and Fatherland". Stunning.




Great star of the imperial order of St. Catherine. Every imperial women receive it at birth or marriage into the family. worn with a red sash (right to left). the 5 stars were found later in Siberia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Catherine

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 07:50:37 PM »
It's rather "For Love and Fatherland".
Ah! Thank you very much ! I think I had better make that the painting's title.
and thank you GrandDuchessAndrea =)...at the rate I'm going , I will finish it early next year. Indeed ...the stars along with other jewels were smuggled out of Tobolsk....It's touching to me they did not break up their  stars to sew into the corsets , but sent them away intact.   Breaking up the stars  would have been the practical thing to do....but I can't see the family doing that....and indeed, they didn't .
I still don't know what that bow is, but I'll just paint what I see.

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline David Pritchard

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 05:47:42 PM »
I have found this photo of Olga wearing 2 medals :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Grand_Duchess_Olga_in_court_dress_1910-2.jpg
The smallest one is the same as on the other photos (and does look Russian to me) but the larger one on the right looks Foreign to me. I’ll look into it.
Olga
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Grand_Duchess_Olga_in_court_dress_1910-2.jpg

I suspect that one or both of these medals is a Danish Order or a Danish Royal House Order.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Medal and ribbon on OTMA court dress...please id
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 07:05:04 PM »
A very interesting idea and direction for research! ....thank you!

 Here it is on Olga's shoulder



She also has her smaller sash. In the 1910 formal of all the children...
Olga  and Tatiana have their grown up sashes...while the Small Pair still have their  smaller sashes .


"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna