Author Topic: What did King George the Vth do in England to help his Imperial Cousins  (Read 27445 times)

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HERE MS. SEAN

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There has been many new books including Shay MacNeal out on several escapes and i was wondering
what was King George Vth thinking when Kerensky could have got them away from Lenin ????
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 09:11:12 AM by Alixz »

YaBB_Jose

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He did nothing at all.

To be fair, at first he considered to rescue them and let them live in Scotland, or better even, may be in Canada.

But the cabinet presented him the version that the british people would be against such action and that by helping the RIF he might be signing the death sentence of his throne and he choosed to stand still.

I wonder if he listened to many people outside the cabinet and wether the pression of the british people was so strong ...

Offline TimM

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He sat on his hands and let poor Nicky and his family get thrown to the wolves.
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Ian (UK)

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   Its so easy to shift the blame over to someone who had no control over the IF's destiny. All too often we see King George V being set up as a convenient patsy for what happened to them. Kerensky could and should have got them out sooner, he had the power and the buck stops there.

   As to what Shay McNeal says on the issue I could not say, as its a long time since I read that book. Though if anyone is interested in nice juicy conspiracy theories, I highly recommend Summers & Mangold.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Wrong wrong wrong, I get fed up of trying to correct it but here goes :):). In about 2006 a newly discovered diary revealed a plot by the British secret services to rescue Nicholas and his family. In Queen Victoria’s Grandchildren, a Channel 4 documentary (maybe available on youtube?) evidence emerged that George V was trying to rescue them.

From what I remember a trusted aid of George V's was in the vicinity of Ekaterinburg trying to organise an escape.

Also even the Duke of Windsor, no defender of his father normally, said that his father was never credited in doing all he could to save the IF like he should have been.

Sad but some people just love to believe the worst of others. :(
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Offline Eddie_uk

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Can't find the documentary which is a shame.
Found a link regarding it:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article601139.ece
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Ian (UK)

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   My 1st paragraph sort of concurs with what you say Eddie & my 2nd is an honest book recommendation. I've seen the programme you mention & I  100% agree with you.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Thank you Carisbrooke & in my haste to go out I neglected to agree completely with your post!
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Ian (UK)

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A LIST OF DOCUMENTS CONCERNING THE TSAR'S FATE. (THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES)
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=The_Fate_of_Tsar_Nicholas_II_of_Russia

    I am willing to concede the window of opportunity for Kerensky was less than I imagined, as the time from the Tsar's abdication to the withdrawal of the invite was only one month as this link shows. However I'm not letting Kerensky off the hook totally, as he could have just thrown the IF out of the country with all the pretence of being a strong leader. Ways & means could have been found for their evacuation, and note he (Kerensky) had no problems getting out when it came for his turn to flee. I think the question should be what did Kerensky do to secure the release of the IF ? Yes I know he had more pressing issues, but if you count up all the days they were in his care, I would say he did very little.

Offline mcdnab

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I've mentioned the documentation on another thread -
A couple of points:
1) It is easy to forget that Nicholas II's personal reputation as a monarch was the principal hindrance on any western power taking him in - he was even amongst moderates regarded as a tyrant
2) George V's principal responsibility as a constitutional or parliamentary monarch was to safeguard his own throne and nation - offering refuge to his autocratic cousin could have had a significant negative effect on his own popularity (even after the war when the Empress Dowager arrived in England one left-wing paper described her, unfairly, as the "evil genius" behind Nicholas II's regime). The Empress' german birth at a time when George V was distancing his family from their Germanic connections would have also been a significant problem.
3) In between the initial offer from the British Government and its withdrawal (down to the intervention of the King's secretary Lord Stamfordham acting on the King's concerns about the offer) Kerensky had been forced to guarantee that the Imperial Family wouldn't leave Russia to the Soviet. Even at this period the window for escape was narrowing.
4) It seems likely given the rumours that certain attempts to look at the possibility of rescuing them after the bolshevik takeover did exist however fanciful some of them might have been.
5) Kerensky may well have regretted not just packing them on a train to Finland but for much of his life in exile preferred to heap the blame for their fate on other countries as their deaths marred his ideal of a bloodless revolution. Ultimately he not the British, the French or anyone else was responsible. He was relatively happy for many of the family to slope off out of the country but wasn't particularly pro-active in urging them to it.
6) The British attitude officially hardened in the last year of the war and we know that as Russia dissolved into civil war the embassy refused Michael Alexandrovitch's plea for a visa and turned down at least one other Grand Duke's request (George Michaelovitch i think). And certainly during the 20's Grand Duke's with the exception of Dimitri Pavlovitch were refused visa's to enter Britain. On the other hand George V was personally both generous and kind to his aunt, the Empress Dowager and his cousin Xenia Alexandrovna both of whom in exile were frequently included in Royal Family events and certainly he was their principal (though other family helped) source of financial support for the remainder of their lives.



Offline Eddie_uk

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Excellent post mcdnab! :)
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Alixz

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Re: What did King George the Vth do in England to help his Imperial Cousins
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 09:10:14 AM »
I have read that the refusal to allow entry of the many Grand Dukes into England had a lot to do with their inability to support themselves.  The British government did not want the burden of paying the tab for untrained and unemployable Russian exiles.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: What did King George the Vth do in England to help his Imperial Cousins
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 09:33:14 AM »
The British government did not want the burden of paying the tab for untrained and unemployable Russian exiles.

Why would the British government have to pay for them? They had no obligation towards them. They would just have to slum it out in the East End like regular penniless immigrants. But of course Grand Dukes who used their connections to the Windsors to earn a living could off course be an embarrassment to the RF and as such were better kept at arm's length across the Channel.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 09:36:00 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Alixz

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Re: What did King George the Vth do in England to help his Imperial Cousins
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 04:08:19 PM »
From The Russian Court At Sea  By Frances Welch:

From Pridham's diary:

"The question of accommodating the refugees is a very difficult problem, no country wishes to be saddled with them, they have nothing with which to support themselves and in many cases are too old to work."

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: What did King George the Vth do in England to help his Imperial Cousins
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 10:32:04 PM »
From The Russian Court At Sea  By Frances Welch:

From Pridham's diary:

"The question of accommodating the refugees is a very difficult problem, no country wishes to be saddled with them, they have nothing with which to support themselves and in many cases are too old to work."

But this probably just shows that they were treated like regular refugee immigrants at the time, vetted to see if they had means to support themselves. It was not like: "We can't let in a grand duke, because then we have to keep him in style."