Re: Floorplan of the children's rooms?

[Baby_Tsarevich]

Thanx for the info Sarai!

But when the AP was a childrens home were the Romanov beloning and furniture still there? And how exactly did the children destroy the Rooms?

[Ortino]

Most of the personal Romanov belongings like photographs were preserved through storage. The girls' furniture was never very valuable to begin with, being very simple in design and quite commonplace. It probably was used to some extent, and most likely destroyed or thrown out in the end. I've never seen any furniture from the girls' rooms except for the early set shown at the Newark exhibition. What damage did they do? I'm sure no one will ever exactly know. Children are children. They break things, play with things they shouldn't. Their presence did nonetheless have an effect on the state of these rooms.  

[Joanna]

...Chambermaid's Room (Looks like it could be their Bathing room)...

From the diagram it is a possibility this room may have been used as a "recovery sickroom" separating the children when one was infected. In Nicholas diary entry in 1913 when Tatiana was diagnosed with typhoid fever in the Winter Palace:

"Tuesday 26 February [1913] ... At 3:00 we moved to Tsarskoe Selo... We separated Tatiana and placed her next to the playroom ..."

There are photographs of this room in the Yale albums.

Joanna

[Sarushka]

Here's a photo labeled "the room where the children had their music lessons at Tsarskoe Selo."


[From The Last Tsar, be Virginia Cowles.]

[Sarushka]

For those of you who haven't been there already...
Vladimir_V. has posted complete plans of the AP on this thread:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=palace;action=display;num=1082893477;start=0#18

Reply #16 is the full second-storey plan.
Reply #60 & #66 is the numeric key to the room labels of the children's wing
Reply #71 is a corrected version of the plans brnbg posted here.

Enjoy!

[gleb]

I have two questions:

How were organized  the children's rooms before the great concert hall was demolished? I mean the two bedrooms of Olga & Tatiana and of Maria & Anastasia did not exist.

Probably they did not have a classroom, so was it the night nursery? and perhaps the crimson sitting room was the day nursery, or maybe the contrary, I read somewhere the nursery was directly above the Imperial bedroom? I think the bathroom has always had the same function.

Do you think the four Princesses used to sleep in the same room for some years?

Second question:

In the floor plans we have we see a door in Aleksey's classroom, towards Derevenko's bedroom.


http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/alekseysclassroom.html

In the watercolour (second photo) there isn't any door, do you know why?

[Ortino]

I unfortunately don't have an answer to your question. Sorry.

However, as for the door, there obviously had to be one. It's likely the artist didn't paint the side of the room with the door.

[Joanna]

How were organized  the children's rooms before the great concert hall was demolished? I mean the two bedrooms of Olga & Tatiana and of Maria & Anastasia did not exist. Probably they did not have a classroom, so was it the night nursery? and perhaps the crimson sitting room was the day nursery, or maybe the contrary, I read somewhere the nursery was directly above the Imperial bedroom? I think the bathroom has always had the same function. Do you think the four Princesses used to sleep in the same room for some years?

From my reading as the concert hall was two-storeyed, the parents and servants had to climb one set of stairs for the second floor section of the left wing and, then having to access the central portion and right wing had to descend that staircase and cross the first floor halls for the other stairs. With the increasing births, Nicholas and Alexandra required not only more rooms that were located near to theirs but also to eliminate the inadequate access problem. When was the redesign as I do not have my notes close? Was it 1903? Then it may be probable that the GDs did sleep together in a night nursery similar to Queen Victoria's Osborne. It would be exciting to see the photograph albums of N&A for the years 1895-1904! And all the years!!!

Joanna

[lilianna]

The imperial family till 1905 did not live in Aleksandrovsk a palace. They have moved there only after arrangement of children's rooms. In a palace the inhabited half was in other wing of a building and consequently nobody stirred the Concert hall.

[Sarushka]

According to At Home with the Last Tsar and His Family, Nicholas and Alexandra moved into the newly redecorated west wing of the Alexander Palace in September of 1895. In August of 1895 Nicholas noted in his diary, "Our new rooms are still being decorated, so we are living in the old quarters."

Nicholas's diary entries throughout 1895 are labeled with Tsarskoye Selo. For example:

19 December - Tsarskoye Selo
Today our daughter was moved upstairs to the nursery - May God bless her!

After the revolutionary events of 1905, the imperial family moved permanently to the Alexander Palace.



It appears that the Concert Hall may have existed until 1902 or 1903, when the Meltzer brothers created the Maple Room and the tsar's New Study. Unfortunately my sources don't discuss the arrangement of the children's rooms prior to the remodeling in the 1900's.



This architectural drawing of Aleksei's remodeled rooms is dated 1913:

[gleb]

Here's a photo labeled "the room where the children had their music lessons at Tsarskoe Selo."


[From The Last Tsar, be Virginia Cowles.]

Hi Sarushka,

Does your book say  this room id in the Alexander Palace?
If it does, I think this is not correct. Just look at the window: it is too long. The windows of the children's floor have a square shape not a rectangular one, and they have a sort of railing becouse they are near the floor.

[Joanna]

Most of the personal Romanov belongings like photographs were preserved through storage. The girls' furniture was never very valuable to begin with, being very simple in design and quite commonplace. It probably was used to some extent, and most likely destroyed or thrown out in the end. I've never seen any furniture from the girls' rooms except for the early set shown at the Newark exhibition. What damage did they do? I'm sure no one will ever exactly know. Children are children. They break things, play with things they shouldn't. Their presence did nonetheless have an effect on the state of these rooms.

 

"Gosfond shop...In 1931-32 the liquidation of the children's part of the Alexander Palace began, and boxes and chests full of clothing, icons, furniture, and so on were removed..."

A. Kuchomov, Oral Memoirs 1993

Also, it is amazing to find for example on the inside front cover of a book with Grand Duchess Olga's bookplate, in the upper left corner a written note: the shelf location of the book in the older grand duchesses classroom in the AP.

Joanna

[thelastimpofrussia]

I have a question: When I see pictures of the GDs classroom, I see it only labeled as the GDs. Then I see pictures of Alexei's classroom there only seems to be one chair. Same goes for the playroom. Some label it as the Grand Duchess's and some label it as Alexei's. Are they all the children's, or are they entirely different rooms?