Author Topic: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II  (Read 141269 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #330 on: November 12, 2012, 02:22:19 PM »
It's VERY hard to convict with a body--usually charges aren't even brought. When they are, and when they are won, it is with a plethora of other physical evidence. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that Kyrill was a closeted homosexual--he has strong women in his life and didn't seem to cat around prior to marriage?
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #331 on: November 12, 2012, 03:08:57 PM »
We don't engage is such unsubstantiated speculation in the history threads.  If you want to discuss this further, please take it to "Having Fun" unless there is concrete evidence to support the speculation.

thanks for your cooperation

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #332 on: November 12, 2012, 03:51:58 PM »
Hi,

I cannot understand why anyone would be interested in somebody else's sex life - whatever that life consists of.....
The expression, "Get a Life" was invented just for such overly nosey people, I would guess....

I would prescribe some major charitable work for you - go out and help someone....

Larry

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #333 on: November 12, 2012, 11:35:14 PM »
I think that is important in the context of why Ducky took that "betrayal " so hard. I did not create the rumor. Both books on Ducky (Van der Kiste & Sullivan) indicated that it could be a man involved. That is not speculation but almost a "near" confirmation. It was a sad end to the marriage.

I think more should be known about Marie's life. I read she was quite a flirtatious character before and in her marriage.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #334 on: November 13, 2012, 01:21:11 AM »
'Both books on Ducky (Van der Kiste & Sullivan) indicated that it could be a man involved. That is not speculation but almost a "near" confirmation.'

To my mind 'could' means no more than 'could'.

Eric

You are quite obsessed with this issue.

Some charitable work would be a good idea. I believe you live in the US. Surely there is plenty of work to be done in the aftermath of Sandy!

Ann

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #335 on: November 13, 2012, 01:58:12 AM »
Quote
Both books on Ducky (Van der Kiste & Sullivan) indicated that it could be a man involved.

Van de Kiste's biography simply states "Cyril had had an affair with another woman".  I have not been able to discover where in the biography he might have "indicated" that there "could be a man involved".  I have not read the Sullivan biography but as it is generally deemed highly inaccurate and speculative, such material can hardly be a ringing endorsement, far less "near" confirmation. 

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #336 on: November 13, 2012, 02:15:28 AM »
I think the best defense is to quote from the Van der kiste book. Pg. 147. "So virulent was her reaction that some were tempted to speculate whether history had repeated itself, and whether he had been subjected to the same weakness or indulgences as her former husband." There it is. I did not add or subtract any words and this comes from the updated version of the book on Ducky. If both biographies saw fit to assert this speculation does that not tell you something ? Ann. Washington DC was attacked but escaped Sandy. That does not give you any excuse to attack me personally. True charity comes from the heart not words.

 

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #337 on: November 13, 2012, 02:44:18 AM »
Van der Kiste said it himself - it was speculation.  He put forward no evidence.  It tells me that the biographers as usual repeated unsubstantiated speculation (in Van der Kiste's case, using the opaque "some" as his authorities) to jazz up the extremely few facts at their disposal, none of which pointed in any way whatsoever to the gender of the individual in question. 

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #338 on: November 13, 2012, 04:23:53 AM »
Countess Kate

I agree entirely. We simply have two biographers reporting speculation, and van der Kiste at least makes it clear that it was speculation.


Eric

Clearly my sense of humour does not chime with yours.

Ann


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #339 on: November 13, 2012, 08:03:35 AM »
True charity comes from actions, not platitudes and sentiment.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #340 on: November 13, 2012, 09:48:58 AM »
How do you know that no actions is taken ? It is no humor that a tragedy had happened and people are killed and homeless.

It is speculation of course, I said likely and not "he did it" with 100 % certainty. I said a good case can be made of it (I still believe in it). I am satisfied that my case that this is an important probability that BOTH authors of biographies on Ducky decided to include in their books. Whether people buy there the theory or not it is up to them. I have presented my case and there it should be left.

More interested to talk about Ducky's eldest daughter Marie.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #341 on: November 13, 2012, 03:15:00 PM »
I think the FA made his point clear and we need to move on now.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #342 on: November 13, 2012, 04:19:37 PM »
Yes. I am moving to Ducky's eldest daughter Marie. Love to know more about her.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #343 on: November 14, 2012, 08:59:52 AM »
I picked up a bunch of postcards on her & her family several months ago. The seller had other copies that they sold (for only about $25/ea tops). They were bought up and some resold on ebay for over $100 some of them--including ones of her with her firstborn and her parents.  I'm glad I got mine when I did. They did the same with some of the cards I'd gotten of Sandra and her family too. The original seller doesn't have the same great stock that they used to--they had a lot on the Hesses and Greek princesses once upon a time. I think the secondary seller snapped up their stock for resale. :(

In some of the photos, Marie K was all dolled up in jewelry but just in a plain old room. It was quite a dichotomy--almost like dress up.

There doesn't seem to be much written about Marie. The bulk of what I've read of her comes from Marlene's book Queen Victoria's Descendants and also Art's book The Grand Duchesses. Neither one was very lengthy. She had no real position--unlike her sister Kira or brother Vladimir both of whom were claimants to the thrones of Germany and Russia respectively. Even her children made more interesting marriages.

She married young, popped out a bunch of children, was widowed and died fairly young. I think there was a story about one or more of her children not being her husband's? I think that was in QVD but I don't have my copy of the book.
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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Grand Duke Kyrill, his wife Victoria Fedorovna and children, Part II
« Reply #344 on: November 14, 2012, 09:03:08 AM »
Yes. I got a few nice ones too. I recent purchased one of her and her two boys. very rare.