Author Topic: A little help please!  (Read 110292 times)

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Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2014, 06:05:35 PM »
My father goes by the surname of Usov. I asked him about why he chose this name.
....
They were made and he he then went out in them and found the person in the town in charge of the passport section. This man apparently had a HUGE moustache. One of those ones that drop down and then curl up at the ends.
OK, so your father chose a pseudonym based on Russian ус, moustache, because the passport official had a huge moustache. But this name is no help linking him with Ivanovskoe.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2014, 08:30:32 AM »
 Further info in relation to the name Usov - his great grandfather or great great gradfather won the town of Usov in a card game. Research has indicated that it could be town of Usov in Moravia - which has an interesting history and there is also a castle - Usov:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Asov

I have two photos which he gave me a little while back. One is of the Estate House previously mentioned with his russian writing on the back which has been translated for me by Barry Lewis whom I have had contact with over the last 10 years or so with other things for translation.

The other photo is a photo of his family in 1910. I do not want to place these photos on photobucket or any other such site as I have had problems previously with intruders hacking in. My facebook page is only for my friends that I know i can trust so I am not going to make that public for all and sundry either, again I have had problems previously with intruders when it has been made available to all and sundry.

Is it not possible for me simply upload them from my computer directly here? He has given me the names of family members, as in their first names, but not their surnames.

I did ask an admin to help me via emailing them as attachments but was refused, could this please be reconsidered.

The other thing I do know is that and this was confirmed by Professor Stewart (Part of the London Royal Free - haematology section) is we are related some 6 generations back via a common ancestor. I was told this around 5 years ago. This puts a timeframe of late 1700's and early 1800's. I was informed I was related to a family called "Smith", whom I am also in contact with. After some discussions with him he urged to me to write a letter to the British Royal Family, but not to expect too much as they would probably get one their "lackeys" to respond. I informed him that I had already done that in 2003 and had received a response from the Queens "lackey"  to say that "No member of the British Royal Family could help me". However, the reply that came back from Prince Charles was distinctly warmer in that his lackey had conveyed via Prince Charles that "It was good of me to write about my father". I as lo explained that after the really awful things that started happening after that, to me and my friends made me feel distinctly unwilling to attempt another letter. I had tried to explain things as they were and it wasn't probably written in the "correct" way to be received. I also was unaware of the old history that has played out from between the Russian and the English Royal families prior.

I have also been informed that there are only 21 people in the world that share this particular autosomal dominant deletion mutation. I don't know exactly what this means - if anything..yet. however the London Royal Free Lab c/o Professor Hawkins and also the Jack O"Neil Lab, are now doing further testing, after I emailed them some further information about my father and those particular 2 photos I have discussed here.

So far we know that all people with this delm694 all come from Northern European heritage. They think there is a common ancestor that links all of the 21 people that have it (plus my family).

My Father is Russian and born in Russia and my mother is English. Mothers family come from Wiltshire, Mildenhall, yet none of them seem to have a history of anything like this, and they go back many generations there. I had wondered if perhaps way back in mothers family there may have been a connection to Russian Nobility...6 generations ago....Tsar Alexander 1st?.....and this, teamed up with my fathers DNA has somehow produced this exceedingly rare thing we have.

Onwards and Upwards! Lets work it all out, if you can help me, please do so, because its driving me nutty. lol

Susannah.







Ничто когда-либо действительно не умирает - это только преобразовывает.

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2014, 08:59:54 AM »
Some names written down by a family member in russia...this might help....There IS an offical family tree I saw only once many years ago with a crest at the top, it was a huge piece of old paper/parchment. Apparently its now gone missing. ::)  This is all I have for the moment.....just have given some of the names showing.

Nikolai Nikolaevitch Voronin - Born 1809 - Died 1962
Nikolai Vladimirovich Glavinsky - Born 1931 - Died 1998
Olga Dmitrevna Glavinskaya 1909 - 1020
Nikolai Ivanovich Pavlov - Born 1915 - Died 1997
Aleksandra Mikhhailovna Batyreva Born 1888 Died 1924

 other names noted:
Korolev
Smirnov
Aksenova
Borisenko
Pavlov
Popov

Dads mother apparently was french from the deNote (DeNote) family? This doesn't make sense to me from what I can see her name was actually Lidiya Nikolaevitch Melnikova Born 1902...dad said something about her having to change her name to a russian name to be able to stay in russia then to marry my grandfather:

Lidiya Nikolaevitch Melnikova Born 1902 - Died?? (before my grandfather)
Nikolai Mikhailovich Usov Born 1895 - Died 1967
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 09:04:34 AM by missmoldavite365 »
Ничто когда-либо действительно не умирает - это только преобразовывает.

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2014, 09:56:33 AM »

Is it not possible for me simply upload them from my computer directly here? He has given me the names of family members, as in their first names, but not their surnames.

I did ask an admin to help me via emailing them as attachments but was refused, could this please be reconsidered.


The Rules are in place for a reason.  We do not have the time nor server capacity to upload photos for users, else we would have to provide that service for everyone, which would take up a tremendous amount of my time and our server capacity.  We have 8000 users for pete's sake.

There are four or five free sources to upload your photos. Photobucket, snapfish, Flickr, etc.  Nobody else has problems using these here. The choice to refuse to avail yourself of one is YOURS.  This subject is no longer for discussion.

Thank you.


Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2014, 10:26:02 AM »
Further info in relation to the name Usov - his great grandfather or great great gradfather won the town of Usov in a card game. Research has indicated that it could be town of Usov in Moravia - which has an interesting history and there is also a castle - Usov:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Asov

That kind of "research" then indicates that you are a Princess of Liechtenstein, since they held the castle of Úsov in Moravia from 1622 to 1945.....

Quote
The other thing I do know is that and this was confirmed by Professor Stewart (Part of the London Royal Free - haematology section) is we are related some 6 generations back via a common ancestor. I was told this around 5 years ago. This puts a timeframe of late 1700's and early 1800's. I was informed I was related to a family called "Smith", whom I am also in contact with. After some discussions with him he urged to me to write a letter to the British Royal Family, but not to expect too much as they would probably get one their "lackeys" to respond. I informed him that I had already done that in 2003 and had received a response from the Queens "lackey"  to say that "No member of the British Royal Family could help me". However, the reply that came back from Prince Charles was distinctly warmer in that his lackey had conveyed via Prince Charles that "It was good of me to write about my father". I as lo explained that after the really awful things that started happening after that, to me and my friends made me feel distinctly unwilling to attempt another letter. I had tried to explain things as they were and it wasn't probably written in the "correct" way to be received. I also was unaware of the old history that has played out from between the Russian and the English Royal families prior.

I have also been informed that there are only 21 people in the world that share this particular autosomal dominant deletion mutation. I don't know exactly what this means - if anything..yet. however the London Royal Free Lab c/o Professor Hawkins and also the Jack O"Neil Lab, are now doing further testing, after I emailed them some further information about my father and those particular 2 photos I have discussed here.

So far we know that all people with this delm694 all come from Northern European heritage. They think there is a common ancestor that links all of the 21 people that have it (plus my family).

So sad if your family dynamics make you believe that simply being related to someone is so unique that it makes you royalty.

Quote
Lets work it all out, if you can help me, please do so, because its driving me nutty. lol
Indeed....
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2014, 10:43:23 AM »
Lidiya Nikolaevitch Melnikova Born 1902 - Died?? (before my grandfather)

Oh, I never knew that melnik is miller in Russian and Melnikov Miller!

You sure your miller ancestors didn't own the town of Mělník in Bohemia and that you're a descendant of the god Thor himself, with his hammer Mjǫlnir? That would explain the surname Batyreva, batyr being another form of bogatyr....

Hey, and Reichstadt / Zákupy is not that far away... Perhaps you are a descendant of l'Aiglon himself? That would explain the surname Voronin = Raven!

Your connections to the British RF are sooo lame and run-of-the-mill compared to this ancestry, which is much more distinguished.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 10:54:33 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2014, 07:20:24 AM »
LOL to all the replies, I can see the "pack of Corsair" energy is quite rife!

I'm here because I am asking for help, I don't know all the answers and I am trying to ascertain what exactly the truth is. I am here because I am choosing to research my RUSSIAN ancestry. If I had had more information and an awareness as I do now I would have contacted a Russian historian in the first place. I literally only just received the ancestor surnames etc less than a year ago after asking for many years.

Am sharing what I am aware of and do know. I can't possibly be a Princess of Lichenstein or a member of a royal family so what is dad on about when he says one of his ancestors won the Town of Usov in a card game....unless it was before the Dukes of Lichenstein?

Like I mentioned I do not know if the DNA has anything to do with it or not - please read the post properly before assuming. Am sharing what I do know so I can work it out not only for me and my children but also my elder brothers  should they also choose to know about their russian ancestry.

If you choose to help please do so. And be please kinder. Noble, not ignoble.

Thank you!





« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:31:01 AM by missmoldavite365 »
Ничто когда-либо действительно не умирает - это только преобразовывает.

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2014, 08:08:49 AM »




Photo of my fathers family and his notes on back of photo.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 08:11:34 AM by missmoldavite365 »
Ничто когда-либо действительно не умирает - это только преобразовывает.

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2014, 08:13:36 AM »


Dads writing on back of photo:
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Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2014, 10:52:43 AM »
Am sharing what I am aware of and do know. I can't possibly be a Princess of Lichenstein or a member of a royal family so what is dad on about when he says one of his ancestors won the Town of Usov in a card game....unless it was before the Dukes of Lichenstein?

You do know how feudalism and serfdom worked, I presume? That Russian landlords could sell and bet their estates with the serfs living on them untill the Abolition of Serfdom in the 1860s.

If the story is true it is more likely it was the small village of Usov in Pervomayskiy (1st of May) rayon, in the Orenburg governate / oblast.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2014, 06:41:07 PM »
Thank you! Yes I am well aware aware of how serfdom and feudalism worked.

I thought too it also might have been small village of Usov in Pervomayskiy (1st of May) rayon, in the Orenburg governate / oblast... However dad said it was in Moravia which he said was at that time part of Russia.

Any thoughts on the photos of the family and of the Estate House where dad was born?

From what I have been able to ascertain the Estate of Ivanovskoe of Yaroslavskaya Province was inherited by Tolstoy in the late 1800's. After that I do not know who owned it or what the status of the Estate is now. Probably a museum?

It would help to be able to know whom to contact in relation the Estate's history. Which I am working on. Probably Barry Lewis is my best shot at the moment due to his knowledge and experience. That would then help my brothers and I work out more of our Fathers russian ancestry.

I am taking the brunt of the research and have been for many years. I want my children and my brothers children to know and to experience their deep russian history and to embrace it, should they so choose to do so.

Many Thanks for taking the time to assist us, it is most appreciated.

This is what it looks like now:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/natibelitskaya/8781521379/in/photostream/
Ничто когда-либо действительно не умирает - это только преобразовывает.

Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2014, 03:04:35 AM »
Quote
I thought too it also might have been small village of Usov in Pervomayskiy (1st of May) rayon, in the Orenburg governate / oblast... However dad said it was in Moravia which he said was at that time part of Russia.
Moravia / Morava / Mähren was a part of the Habsburg Empire 1526-1919.

Quote
This is what it looks like now:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/natibelitskaya/8781521379/in/photostream/
This is not Ivanskoye in Yaroslavskaya Oblast, but an Ivanskoye in the town of Podolsk in the Moscow Region. This is the grand estate that was owned by a (not the) Count Tolstoy in the 19th century.
Can't you see that the estate in the picture you got from your father looks much more modest than this palatial Ivanskoye???

Quote
It would help to be able to know whom to contact in relation the Estate's history. Which I am working on. Probably Barry Lewis is my best shot at the moment due to his knowledge and experience. That would then help my brothers and I work out more of our Fathers russian ancestry.
Why not try the regional cultural authorities or even tourist authorities, to begin with? http://www.yarregion.ru/eng/default.aspx
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 03:11:57 AM by Превед »
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2014, 10:51:59 AM »
After that I do not know who owned it or what the status of the Estate is now. Probably a museum?

You said yourself that it was burned down during WW2, so there is no reason for it to be a musem. If the manor house itself is gone there is not much to see, museum-wise.
Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline Превед

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2014, 12:21:23 PM »
Some names written down by a family member in russia...this might help....There IS an offical family tree I saw only once many years ago with a crest at the top,

Did it resemble this (the Usov arms): http://gerbovnik.ru/arms/640.html?
Or see here, for a colour rendering on the Wikipedia page of the noble family of Usov: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A3%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B
The 19th century Usovs listed there seem real enough, but then it lists some modern Usovs, including:
Усов Алексей Анатольевич (1973 -по наст.вр.)Умный,Красивый,женатый Майор
=
Usov, Alexey Anatolevich (1973 - present)Smart, beautiful, married, mayor.

Well, anyone can edit Wikipedia....

NB the links above show the Usov (coat of) arms. It's erronous to call it "crest", because a crest is what is on top of the shield (or helmet), i.e. in the Usovs' case an upright golden arrow between two white wings.


Берёзы севера мне милы,—
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: «Ивы и берёзы», 1843 / 1856)

Offline missmoldavite365

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Re: A little help please!
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2014, 09:12:42 PM »
"This is not Ivanskoye in Yaroslavskaya Oblast, but an Ivanskoye in the town of Podolsk in the Moscow Region. This is the grand estate that was owned by a (not the) Count Tolstoy in the 19th century.
Can't you see that the estate in the picture you got from your father looks much more modest than this palatial Ivanskoye???"


Yes I had wondered about that, I didn't know what to think other than possibly it had been rebuilt at some stage - and added on to ....and that the photo my father gave me doesn't show ALL of the Estate house, just a portion of it.....thank you for explaining! Looks like some lovely birch trees out the front.

Doesn't dads writing specifically say: "Estate of Ivanovskoe of Yaroslavskaya Province" ??? hmm.

No that family crest doesn't look anything like what my father showed me or made for me...when I was a round 10 years of age, he made me 2 wooden shields to put on the wall, and placed on each shield : one is of a brown russian bear on a pale blue background with a long cutting implement over its left shoulder and the blade is curved amd white, the other shield is of a golden eagle in descent mode on a white background then a blue line and underneath that a red background with two of the same style of cutting implenets as the bear, but they are crossed over, and the curved blades are golden in colour.

I do really like those Usov arms you showed me....much better though! All very interesting indeed!

??? I can take a photo of them and post if that would help - ?

Thank you so much! :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 09:20:04 PM by missmoldavite365 »
Ничто когда-либо действительно не умирает - это только преобразовывает.