Nesselrode

[baronet65]

Does anyone had information about any photos or painting picture of very interesting person, eccentric and beautiful countess Lydie Nesselrode  (1826 -1884), daughter of Moscow military governor Arseny Zakrevsky and wife of Dmitry Nesselrode, son of  Russian's Chancellor Count Karl Robert Nesselrode and mistress of Alexandre Dumas -fils.
I find only one very small  her image
http://www.photo.rmn.fr/cf/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=4&FP=8560147&E=2K1KTS9PKUWD&SID=2K1KTS9PKUWD&New=T&Pic=3&SubE=2C6NU0X207NK

[Mari]

I wish this was larger. She looks elegant and beautiful!

 Dumas wrote "The Lady of the Camellias" which was thinly disguised about the days of his youth when he was pursued by Countess Nesselrode! In the Book of course...I have no primary material to actually prove She did the chasing.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fKCr-IvrnfMC&pg=PR13&lpg=PR13&dq=countess+Lydie+Nesselrode+and+Alexander+Dumas&source=bl&ots=E20eNmncRC&sig=xBfTJt2wr7YQGjE8TxGZh5ygfoc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

[Marc]

I didn't know where to post this thread because Nesselrode is also a mediatized family,but I am particularly interested in Count Karl Robert von Nesselrode who was a Russian Chancellor,Minister of Foreign Affairs and State secretary,aide-de-camp to Emperor Paul so I decided to post it here...

I was reading about him,that he was born in Lisbon to a German father(Count of the Holy Roman Empire) who was an ambassador of Russia and Protestant mother,thus baptized in Anglican Church...I tried to google who his parents were but couldn't find it as their names are not mentioned anywhere...

So,if anyone of you knows the names of his parents,it would be of much help...

[beladona]

Do you mean this Karl Robert (1780-1862):


His parents are: Maximilian Julius Wilhelm Nesselrode (1728-1810) and Louise Gontard (1746-85).

[Marc]

Yes,I though about him...thank you very much! :-)

He was such an interesting person,member of a mediatized family who was baptized in Anglican church.Count was born in Lisbon,of German father in service to Russia and protestant mother...he was one of the participants of the famous Vienna congress where the map of Europe was created...

He was not liked among his fellow diplomats...they often said that he is not that skillful,but just a man who enjoyed only meals(Nesselrode pie and pudding were named after him) and money...

Thanks to this information,I found that he had a son Dimitri and two daughters Helena and Maria,but nothing is known about them...

There was also his relative Count Friedrich von Nesselrode(Fiodor von Nesselrode) who was also in service to Russia...

Does anyone know how and why members of Nesselrode family came to Russia?There were several branches of them...

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

He was such an interesting person,member of a mediatized family

What if he hadn't been mediatized and entitled to the style Erlaucht / сиятельство, but only Hochgeboren, would he be adressed as высокородие in Russian? (That is before he rose in the ranks and became an Excellency.)

[Marc]

It is interesting that Counts von Nesselrode,as some other mediatized families were not entitled to the predicate Erlaucht.They were not recognized as Standesherren(the ones who had the right to use Erlaucht) because they lost their Imperial Estate before July of 1806-they lost their immediate land of Mechernich in 1801 and sold their immediate land of Reichenstein...

That is the similar case with other listed as mediatized families like:

-Bretzenheim(lost their immediate lands Bretzenheim and Winzenheim in 1801 and sold immediate Lindau in 1803)

-Ligne(lost their immediate land of Fagnolles in 1801 and sold immediate Edelstetten in 1804 to Esterhazy family)

-Abensberg-Traun(sold their immediate lands Eglof and Siggen in 1804 to Windischgrätz family)

-Nostitz(sold immediate land of Rheineck in 1803 to Colloredo-Mansfeld family)...

It is also interesting that some other mediatized families,such as Bentinck-Aldenburg were entitled to use this predicate(from 1845),but were not even Standesherren in any German State prior to that,although were sovereign Lords of Knyphausen and Vare,but under the overlordship of Oldenburg...they were only later made Standesherren in Oldenburg!

[beladona]

Thanks to this information,I found that he had a son Dimitri and two daughters Helena and Maria,but nothing is known about them...

Helena (born 1815) married Michael Kreptovich, Maria (1820-88) married Albin von Seebach. Dimitri (born 1816) has from his marriage with Lydia Zakrewskaja one son, Anatol. Do you know something more about Nesselrode´s mother, Louise Gontard? She probably was not from noble family?

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

Do you know something more about Nesselrode´s mother, Louise Gontard? She probably was not from noble family?

She was the daughter of the rich Huguenot merchant Jakob Friedrich Gontard and Maria Magdalena Sarasin in Frankfurt. Together with her brother Jacob, a banker, she was elevated to the imperial baronage (Reichsfreiherrenstand) in 1780, the same year she married Nesselrode. The wife of one of their cousins, Susette Borkenstein Gontard, was the lover of Hölderlin.

Source: Deutsche Biographie

It is interesting that Counts von Nesselrode,as some other mediatized families were not entitled to the predicate Erlaucht.They were not recognized as Standesherren(the ones who had the right to use Erlaucht) because they lost their Imperial Estate before July of 1806-they lost their immediate land of Mechernich in 1801 and sold their immediate land of Reichenstein...

Ah, interesting! So were they styled высокородие, Hochgeboren, in Russian?

[Marc]

She was the daughter of the rich Huguenot merchant Jakob Friedrich Gontard and Maria Magdalena Sarasin in Frankfurt. Together with her brother Jacob, a banker, she was elevated to the imperial baronage (Reichsfreiherrenstand) in 1780, the same year she married Nesselrode. The wife of one of their cousins, Susette Borkenstein Gontard, was the lover of Hölderlin.

Source: Deutsche Biographie

Very interesting,thank you...didn't know that!Well,than the marriage makes sense...

[Marc]

Ah, interesting! So were they styled высокородие, Hochgeboren, in Russian?

I assume it might be like that because all mediate Countly families were entitled to "Hochgeboren"!On the other hand don't know what is the meaning of counting Nesselrode among meditized families if they didn't qualify for the rights that other mediatized Counts had after their mediatization ;-/