Author Topic: Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death  (Read 201568 times)

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ilyala

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2006, 02:06:33 PM »
i have found in my bookcase a book written by a hungarian historian called istvan bart. the book is called 'the unfortunate destiny of prince rudolf'. in it it presents an interesting theory. it says that in the last night rudolf called for a doctor from the closest military unit, the doctor responsible for it. it also says that, as surprising as that may sound, that particular doctor was a gynecologist. it suggests that mary was pregnant and tried to have an abortion that went wrong and she died as a consequence... and that rudolf felt responsible (of killing her indirectly) and killed himself. anyone heard of this theory? the book says that it's based on contemporary sources but it doesn't name thme anywhere  :-/

Offline Svetabel

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2006, 12:58:34 AM »
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i have found in my bookcase a book written by a hungarian historian called istvan bart. the book is called 'the unfortunate destiny of prince rudolf'. in it it presents an interesting theory. it says that in the last night rudolf called for a doctor from the closest military unit, the doctor responsible for it. it also says that, as surprising as that may sound, that particular doctor was a gynecologist. it suggests that mary was pregnant and tried to have an abortion that went wrong and she died as a consequence... and that rudolf felt responsible (of killing her indirectly) and killed himself. anyone heard of this theory? the book says that it's based on contemporary sources but it doesn't name thme anywhere  :-/

I also have this book by Bart, I've re-read it recently. Well,his theory sounds interesting and I agree that he  does not take the trouble to name the sources  :-/

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2006, 07:14:09 AM »
Some years ago a muddled man stole Mary Vetsera's dead body. Then an autopsy was made and they found out that Mary died because of a shot in the head. But maybe she was pregnant, too.
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2006, 11:20:56 AM »
About Crown Prince Rudolf and marie Vestera:

   All the book I have read about Empress Elizabeth and Rudolf and Stephanie and even Franz Joseph have left out certian things about Rudolf not known to history. In the Emperors memoirs he went to great lengths to cover his sons suicide, why Could it be that Rudolf did not wish to wait like Edward the7th did for QV to die? or maybe Rudolf's views on the hegmony that was Austria Hungary in the late 1800's needed a change and his father could not accept it. We know he and Stephanie were ill suited and he gave her syphillis( which made a male heir impossible) He did send a note to the Papal Nuncio requesting a possible divorce from Stephanie after the birth of little elizabeth...... Rudolf was dismayed when William II became Emperor in 1888..... :-/

Offline MarieCharlotte

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2006, 05:02:59 PM »
Besides that Rudolf was very ill ...
Ich aber breite trauernd aus
die weiten weissen Schwingen,
Und kehr' ins Feenreich nach Haus -
Nichts soll mich wieder bringen.


Elisabeth

Offline crazy_wing

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2006, 09:20:25 PM »
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About Crown Prince Rudolf and marie Vestera:

Could it be that Rudolf did not wish to wait like Edward the7th did for QV to die? or maybe Rudolf's views on the hegmony that was Austria Hungary in the late 1800's needed a change and his father could not accept it.
 

One of the biggest reason why this tragedy took place is because Rudolf felt lonely.  It didn't help when he had inherited the Wittslbach eccentricity from his mother and had poor relations with his family.   Unlike EVII, his relationships with his parents and his wife were poor and he didn't have many strong and supportive siblings to talk to.  I understand that he was very closed to Gisela but after her marriage, she was too far away to be able to help him.  I am not even sure how much she knew about his problems.  

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2006, 11:53:17 AM »
This was a very tragic story; it was very sad. Rudolph had many issues. I suppose it was easier to die with someone than alone, so this is why he did it. He made himself into a murderer so he could kill himself. He had no one around to be supportive, and his mother's family was very eccentric to say the least, and he inheirited this. Mary Vetsera was a naive young woman, who become the victim of both herself, and Rudolph. She went along with his plot, foolishly, and thus died, and he did as well. She was foolish, yet she did possess sexual magnetism, although she was no great beauty at all. She was pretty, and her stoory is sad, but she should have known better. Perhaps she was pregnant; she was one of many women to Rudolph. I don't  think Rudolph would have made a good Emperor if he hadn't killed himself.

ilyala

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2006, 02:29:17 PM »
Quote
Quote
About Crown Prince Rudolf and marie Vestera:

Could it be that Rudolf did not wish to wait like Edward the7th did for QV to die? or maybe Rudolf's views on the hegmony that was Austria Hungary in the late 1800's needed a change and his father could not accept it.
 

One of the biggest reason why this tragedy took place is because Rudolf felt lonely.  It didn't help when he had inherited the Wittslbach eccentricity from his mother and had poor relations with his family.   Unlike EVII, his relationships with his parents and his wife were poor and he didn't have many strong and supportive siblings to talk to.  I understand that he was very closed to Gisela but after her marriage, she was too far away to be able to help him.  I am not even sure how much she knew about his problems.  

edward 7th was a disappointment for his parents. i sincerely doubt they got along too well... but he had a very different personality.

Offline crazy_wing

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2006, 06:02:10 PM »
Indeed he had a different personality.  But as much as EVII was a disappointment to QV, I think their relationship was much better than the relationship between Rudolf and FJ.  

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2006, 09:19:54 AM »
Rudolph does seem to have disapointed his parents, far before his tragic death, which is easy to see why it was disapointing..

Agneschen

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2006, 09:56:10 AM »
Unlike Edward VII Rudolf was depressive and most unstable. Besides he drank heavily and, towards the end of his life, had turned to drugs to ease the pain caused by the venerial disease he suffered from.
The last known pictures of him are very telling IMO. He is barely over 30 but looks much older. The combined effects of a debauched life & depression I guess ... I remember one of his letters to his wife Stéphanie in which he states he has almost forgotten the meaning of the word "to sleep" !!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Agneschen »

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2006, 10:07:23 AM »
His lifestyle in many ways did destroy him. Not that Hapsburg Princes hadn't been debauched or had undesirable lifestyles for ages. It was nothing new, but it seemed to destroy Rudolph more than some others. I think he would have died realtively younger even if it hadn't been for the suicide/ murder at Mayerling.  He was on a course to destroy himself.

Offline Marie Valerie

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2006, 10:33:17 AM »
Rudolf was so ill, he would have had died in a short time.
I think it's the same desease for that fell Archduke Otto, Franz Ferdinand's younger brother.

Many people think that "Kaiser Rudolf" would have been better for Austria, than his old father,
but at Franz Joseph's death Rudolf were 58 years old and the world was in WW1, there where nothing to save and do.  

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2006, 10:49:06 AM »
Yes, knowing the way he was, I can't see how he could have changed the course of the Austro Hungarian Empire by ruling. He might just have made matters worse than they were. He wasn't a saviour for the monarachy sadly. I am sure he would have died in a short time anyway.

ilyala

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Re: Crown Prince Rudolph--controversies, affairs & his death
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2006, 05:19:50 AM »
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Rudolf was so ill, he would have had died in a short time.
I think it's the same desease for that fell Archduke Otto, Franz Ferdinand's younger brother.

Many people think that "Kaiser Rudolf" would have been better for Austria, than his old father,
but at Franz Joseph's death Rudolf were 58 years old and the world was in WW1, there where nothing to save and do.  


bare in mind that the pretext of world war 1 was the assasination of franz ferdinand. since i tend to think the world was set on a war anyway, i wonder what would have started it, had rudolf been alive, and would it have happened later and in different conditions?