Author Topic: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg  (Read 23035 times)

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Offline Sunny

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Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« on: May 05, 2011, 01:08:01 AM »
I'm trying to write about those 78 days in Ipatev house; a novel of course, but i would like to be as most historical correct as possible.
In The Fate of the Romanovs - my most important source of infos, for obvious reasons! - I've read the memories of the guards, recolling what happened after the "accident" between Maria and Ivan Skorokhodov, that is: Aleksandra could be heard scoling her daughter for her behaviour, even if whispering; Olga was very angry with her sister and began to avoid her intentionally.
I'm not surprised for Aleksandra's reaction - at the contrary, i think it's obvious, knowing her personality and the fact. But i'm a little swuroprised for Olga's; may be i'm wrong, but i thinkls this was the first time something had the strenght to separate OTMA in someway.
In my "novel" i want to concentrate on the feelings, so this event is very important; i was quite puzzled when i tried to imagine what really happened. I didn't find any mention of a specific argument, a angry discussion - maybe there were none - but it's hard to me believe a kind girl like Olga avoid her sister - for so long, (cause i remember, if i'm right, Jurovskij said that Olga was angry with Maria till the end).
I've tried to imagine how could have been Olga's behaviuor in particular, how should have Maria suffered for it, and i've so many questions!
Did Tatiana and Anastasia have a part in it? And if yes, how? And Nicholas? Was there an argument or only silence and hate? Didn't Olga and Maria really resolve this thing till the died?
I'm very confused, but i should write very much about it, so i would like to know your opinions . i'm sure you contribute will help me writing!
Thanks everyone in advance!  :)
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 09:20:03 AM »
Sunny I find the time at Ipatiev house very interesting of course....It's hard to imagine how they stood up to 78 days in such a place....amazing
Anyway I believe because Olga saw how it would end more clearly than her sisters as  has been suggested, , she began to connect  with her mother more . She became more in tune with her mother's religious feelings and bone deep fatalism . Olga and her parents were emotionally on their way out more than the other girls imo...while the other girls  chatted up the guards until the end etc. , but not Olga....her moving away from interaction with Marie might of been from a generally withdrawal from such additives rather than pointedly aimed at Marie. However I don't think it was all the time. The washer women don't suggest Olga wasn't in tune with the rest, smiling as the girls  helped with the floor washing etc. 

Anyone writing of this time could use Alix's last diary...I find it a treasure trove....just her note  saying one day Marie and maid washed Alix's hair...well I see a picture right off of Marie's strong hands on her mother's head, Alix's red /grey hair over her eyes as  Marie and  Anna Demidova smile ...and it's a great detail for a writer to add too  ...that's just one , and it's has lots more ...plus an invaluable time line of what happened when

Good luck with your project!

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 11:53:10 AM »
Thank you BlessOtma  :)
I agree with you about Olga being nearest than ever to her mother's feelings: in fact, i have already wrote about Olga and Alix having a better relationship than ever in Ekaterinburg, being closer, understand each other in a moment without words; and, of course, about Olga sharing her mother's feeling about the accident between Maria and Ivan.
I started this topic 'cause I've already written about an argument between Olga and Maria, in which - inevitably -Anastasia and Tatiana are also implicated, trying to calm down their sisters, suffering 'cause their bond is somehow weaker. But i'm afraid my POV is too dramatic, a bit improbable, that's why i'd like your opinions!
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Offline Grand Duchess Valeria

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 02:22:20 PM »
I could imagine that Olga was maybe somehow jealous. Maria was still happy, living her life, having admirers and was still very young. Olga was at this time 22. For the time around 1918 she was old, slowly loosing her appeal as a bride while she could not tell if or when the capture will have an end. Maybe she got the feeling for being "too old for living her life" when she will be released. Thats just a thought of mine.
And when he shall die, // Take him and cut him out in little starres, // And he will make the Face of heaven so fine, // That all the world will be in Love with night, // And pay no worship to the Garish Sun.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 09:24:47 PM »
It's interesting Olga told Baroness B on the Rus they were lucky to see be alive...and to see their parents again whatever the out come.
I think she had no hope.  She and Marie could certainly have an argument about this, but I don't see it as the only reason they did not seem as close in their finally days ...their approach in coping with the awful  situation appears very diffrent and that in itself would cause a lessing of closeness. If how you get though your day is at odds, you won't seek out the other so much imo . I think also Marie's health was far better.A difference in health can't be forgotten when looking at a relationship .  Olga had arsenic injections in 1916 ...I've always wondered if they played apart in the ruin of her youth as has been noted...plus the Big Pair had been in a real sense guardians / parents of  their mother, and in good measure , the Little Pair for years by this time...On top of this was the ghastly war and then their whole world  goes smash...Olga  seems exhausted from all this to me...plus seeing  the end that was in store for them more clearly than the rest  family. Really I'm amazed how well she did under these circumstances . But in the summer of 1918  Marie and Olga appeared to be in quite diffrent places emotionally  , even while being under the same roof.

 

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 07:03:59 AM »
I could imagine that Olga was maybe somehow jealous. Maria was still happy, living her life, having admirers and was still very young. Olga was at this time 22. For the time around 1918 she was old, slowly loosing her appeal as a bride while she could not tell if or when the capture will have an end. Maybe she got the feeling for being "too old for living her life" when she will be released. Thats just a thought of mine.

Valeria, it seems you've read secretely my works and resumed there here  ;D that's EXACTLY the explanation i've given in the text, when Olga talks about it with Nicholas: she feels old and unhappy, and is jalous 'cause Maria is still pretty and full of joy and life.
This make me feel better - my opinions are not unreliable!

but in the summer of 1918  Marie and Olga appeared to be in quite diffrent places emotionally  , even while being under the same roof.

I perfectly agree. I described them being completely different, feeling different, seing life different. This was also my view of thei situation... and is still now
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Offline Grand Duchess Valeria

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 11:42:33 AM »
Yes :) I don't think Olga had meant any harm to her sister but - if you see her  stubborn, strongwilling and somehow "revolting" character - it is maybe more an implicit rejection which she could not really controll. That is - as I said - just my thought (and sorry if I do offend somebody with this)
And when he shall die, // Take him and cut him out in little starres, // And he will make the Face of heaven so fine, // That all the world will be in Love with night, // And pay no worship to the Garish Sun.

Offline Holly

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 09:00:44 PM »
For the most part, I can agree with the statements made by blessOTMA.

But I think you are looking too hard into this, Sunny. It's not the best thing to rely on one source and build a situation around it, per-say. There is nothing solid with the story of Maria with a guard on her birthday. As you said, you are "imagining" the behavior of Olga and Maria. For a fictional story as you say you're writing, you will have to imagine whatever it is you're writing on this subject as there is no real proof besides FOTR of what happened exactly or if it actually did cause any degree of a rift between Olga and Maria.

I very highly doubt there was any "hate" in the family at all. Each of the sisters definitely had their own way of dealing with the circumstances at the time, they had their own personalities so this is a given. You must remember that Maria's role in exile was no more cheery than Anastasia's. They both dealt with the depression and loneliness, as is evidenced from their letters of the time and yet in the same letters one can find their youthful hope and ways of finding ways of entertaining themselves and each other. So, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking when you say "did Tatiana/Anastasia/Nicholas have a part in it"? There is NO real information on it that can be taken with anything more than a grain of salt to begin with. Anything you come up with will have to be purely imagination.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 09:05:22 PM by Holly »
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 01:31:12 PM »
Holly - thank you for your opinions  :)
You see, i've asked your opinions here, exactly 'cause i have no other proof about this. It sounded me something big, and tried to imegine something about, but i really wanted to know what is historically known and sure, and what isn't. Of course writing a novel, everyone is free to imagine and write what he wants - the important is, he has to know what is history, and what is imagination.
I really wanted to know where is the precise border between what really happen and what happens only in my head - between this two zones there's the "no man's land" of what could have been, but we don't know - 'cause we know facts, but most of times don't know particulars.
So opinions like yours are so important for me, 'cause i know i could write everything i want, but knowing what is real and what is not - and be conscious of the difference!

Knowing the are no other historical proofs, change my state of consciousness - and help me imagine what comes next!
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2011, 01:43:10 PM »
i really have troubles writing about it.
I "simply" want to be as historically correct as I can - it's fiction, not an historical book - but i just can't imagine how this could have been, realistically.
I REALLY, TERRIBLY need your help.
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 03:45:10 PM »
I "simply" want to be as historically correct as I can - it's fiction, not an historical book - but i just can't imagine how this could have been, realistically.

But that's just what you have to do -- imagine. Nobody can tell you what happened, because nobody knows. I've done some research of my own with the sources King & Wilson cite regarding these incidents, and IMO the evidence is too scanty to be certain about the nature of Maria's interactions with either Skorokhodov or Olga.
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Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 04:28:22 PM »
Sunny, I know just how you feel. I think that you are...what's the word, overplaying? overdoing? the scale of the argument. Play it down a bit, is my advice, but certainly don't delete it from your story!
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2011, 07:57:50 PM »
I wish I thought in the summer of 1918 Olga Nicholaievna believed in the future enough to be jealous of Marie in this manner...if she was jealous of Marie at all , perhaps it was because Marie saw a future...I don't believe Olga did.   

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Offline Sunny

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2011, 12:59:07 AM »
I wish I thought in the summer of 1918 Olga Nicholaievna believed in the future enough to be jealous of Marie in this manner...if she was jealous of Marie at all , perhaps it was because Marie saw a future...I don't believe Olga did.   

That's what i think, too. But, as Andrwa said, i was "overplaying"; the scene took my hand, and a simple argument became a huge question in which porr Nicholas and Alexei were involved. My real problem is, i know what i wrote is exagerrate  :D
I "simply" want to be as historically correct as I can - it's fiction, not an historical book - but i just can't imagine how this could have been, realistically.

But that's just what you have to do -- imagine. Nobody can tell you what happened, because nobody knows. I've done some research of my own with the sources King & Wilson cite regarding these incidents, and IMO the evidence is too scanty to be certain about the nature of Maria's interactions with either Skorokhodov or Olga.

Thank you so much: your advice are always so perfect. i have problems to imagine how they could have reacted, you know. i wrote about them shouting and insulting each other - but those wasn't Otma, those were fictional carachter in my head, not behaving as otma! That was my point. I know you can teach me about haow make them mov around, but of course you tips are wonderful  ;)
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga and Maria in Ekaterinburg
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2011, 06:48:06 AM »
Quote
i wrote about them shouting and insulting each other
actually I could see this ...imo they certainly did this about other things..( vigorously fought each other etc.)  They comment in letters from Siberia that amazingly they haven't fought yet  ) .BUT after the shouting and when they see each other's angry faces,  I see the girls burst out laughing about it 

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