Author Topic: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2  (Read 167207 times)

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Offline carkuczyn

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #150 on: September 06, 2006, 10:59:42 PM »
the article, "an inheritance no one desired " is very good.  thank you for writing it and making it available on the forum.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #151 on: September 06, 2006, 11:02:54 PM »
the article, "an inheritance no one desired " is very good.  thank you for writing it and making it available on the forum.

Thank you for your kind words.

Margarita


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Tsarina_Liz

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #152 on: September 08, 2006, 02:49:44 PM »
I agree.  It's an interesting compendium of quotes and facts that normally require searching to compile.  I still haven't been able to find JK's article and was wondering how it compares.  Can anyone enlighten me? 

J_Kendrick

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #153 on: September 11, 2006, 11:10:36 AM »
It is only you Mr Kendrick who continually persist in raising this issue of fanciful notions of other possibilities, whist re-intoducing your personal "Historic Perpective" to this forum.

Alexei's hemophilia episodes were indeed proven medically by a panel of international specialists of the day. He presented with all the physical symptomology of this condition which he endured throughout his short life.

Again permit me to direct you to this published article (An Inheritance No one Desired) which is also available on our website for your convenience:


http://www.geocities.com/mushkah/Hemophilia.html

I, for one, am still no more impressed now than I was when you first penned that little diatribe.  Just because the same old story has been told and retold a thousand times throughout the better part of the past century... and just because you now see fit to repeat that same old story here... does not make it true.

Without any laboratory evidence, there is NO proof.

You have stated in "An Inheritance No One Desired" (and I quote directly):

"Today, diagnostic tests for hemophilia provide the clinician confirmation that there is qualitative abnormality of Factor VIII.  A century ago such diagnoses were unavailable."

That is precisely my point.  There is NO laboratory diagnostic evidence.  No laboratory evidence whatsoever -- and no medical doctor in this day an age would ever dare to make such a diagnosis without that same laboratory evidence to confirm his suspicions.

A century ago, when this all took place, the physicians of the day did not even know what Factor VIII was.  They had never even heard of Factor VIII, because it would not be discovered for another 50 years.  Even Robert Massie did not know what Factor VIII was when he wrote in "Nicholas and Alexandra" in 1967: "Scientists know that the defective gene which causes hemophilia appears on one of the female sex chromosomes, known as X chromosomes, but they have never precisely pinpointed the location of the faulty gene or determined the nature of the flaw." (Chapter Twelve, footnotes)

At this point in time, 40 years after Massie and 96 years after the Spala episode, the same is no longer true.  We now know precisely where and how to find the Factor VIII gene with laboratory testing and we can even commercially engineer the Factor VIII protein. That same very laboratory testing we are now fully able to do has never been done publicly in the Romanov case, even though Alexandra's DNA has now been available for those tests for more than fifteen (15) years.

Without that laboratory evidence, all you have is nothing more than a large collection of historically popular speculations.  You do not have any scientific laboratory proof.

You then go on to say: "Physicians were, however, able to identify the condition based on observation of the symptoms, assessing its severity and frequency of events.... While no definitive laboratory essays were available at the turn of the last century, what the physicians of the day relied upon were physical observations."

And that's precisely what is wrong with your interpretation.  You write as if Haemophilia is the only blood disorder known to modern medicine -- as if haemophilia was the only possible blood disorder that a boy can inherit from his mother -- but nothing could be further from the truth.

Continued in following post...

J_Kendrick

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #154 on: September 11, 2006, 11:13:33 AM »
...Continued from previous post.

Today's haematologists now know for a fact that there are more than a hundred and fifty (150) known blood disorders that will show the same sort of symptoms that were observed in Alexei's case -- more than 150 disorders that will show what is called a "Hemorrhagic Diathesis".   What is more, it is now known today that as many as three dozen (36) of those same disorders can be passed by X-linked inheritance.. and practically every single one of those blood disorders was completely unknown to the doctors of Alexei's time.. because they had not yet been discovered.

It is now practically impossible to determine, with any certainty, precisely which of those blood disorders a patient really has..  if the only diagnostic tool you have is simple observation. Laboratory testing is the only sure way to confirm that diagnosis -- laboratory testing that has never been available in Alexei's case.

You also fail to understand the difference between first and second hand sources.  The only first hand sources are the parents, the doctors directly involved, and the patient himself.  None of those people has ever been shown to have used the word haemophilia directly.  All of those sources that you now use -- whether they were relatives, friends, or palace staff -- were only repeating a diagnosis that they had claimed to have heard.  That, by definition, is second hand evidence, and as such.. by the legally recognised definition of witness evidence that is now used in the courts... their evidence must be considered to be hearsay. 

Your biggest mistake, however, is found in your following statement (and I quote precisely):

"The surface proteins, found on the platelets called Factors, are vital in enabling the blood to clot.  When there is a platelet dysfunction, the plugging mechanism will take longer to develop. The patient will experience continued internal haemorrhaging, which causes pressure on surrounding muscle tissue, with excruciating pain and inflammation at the site of injury."

Yes -- Platelet dysfunction does cause bleeding and internal haemorrhage like we see in Alexei's case -- BUT, NO -- Platelet dysfunction is NOT haemophilia!!

And for that I must thank you, because your statement above plays right into my hands!!
 
See:
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section11/chapter133/133c.jsp
http://healthlibrary.stanford.edu/resources/internet/bodysystems/blood_platelet.html
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic987.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=871527&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=PubMed&term=Platelet+Disorders+x+linked&tool=QuerySuggestion
http://www.hemophilia.ca/en/2.4.4.php
http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/diseasemanagement/hematology/platelet/platelet.htm
http://www.itppeople.com/lowplate.htm
http://www.anzics.com.au/teaching/phvc/platelet.html
http://www.hawaii.edu/medicine/pediatrics/pedtext/s11c06.html

.. and that's just for starters...

Yes -- Alexei did have symptoms of bleeding and internal haemorrhage --  BUT -- No -- It was not haemophilia... and on that point we must agree to disagree.

Without those laboratory tests, which you do not have, you cannot prove otherwise.... no matter how many arguments you may offer to the contrary.

But now we are straying much too far from the original topic of this thread -- Could a faulty carrier gene have caused Alexandra's other symptoms? :-)

Given her age at the time of the murders, has anyone ever considered whether any Alexandra's symptoms could have been evidence of an early onset of menopause?

jk
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 11:34:33 AM by J_Kendrick »

J_Kendrick

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #155 on: September 11, 2006, 11:27:43 AM »
Mr. Kendrick,
  I'm having trouble locating the specific article.  Could you please provide a complete citation (author, title, volume, etc.) so I can better find it.  Thanks,
 - Liz

Please see:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15307116&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
or:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/109593773/ABSTRACT

jk

Offline carkuczyn

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #156 on: September 11, 2006, 04:25:22 PM »
isn't this a little like splitting hairs, jk?

J_Kendrick

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #157 on: September 12, 2006, 01:22:01 PM »
isn't this a little like splitting hairs, jk?

Absolutely NOT !!!  It is the difference between a right and a wrong diagnosis

Platelet dysfunction definitely does cause the types of symptoms that are seen in Alexei's medical history -- BUT  -- Platelet dysfunction is most definitely NOT haemophilia.  Haemophlia is caused by a clotting factor deficiency.

The only way to know for certain whether Alexei's disease was actually caused by either a platelet dysfunction or a clotting factor deficiency is by doing the necessary laboratory testing of Alexandra's DNA to confirm whether or not she actually was a carrier -- which has never been done publicly -- and by doing the necessary laboratory testing of Alexei's DNA for evidence of the suspected clotting factor deficiency to confirm his diagnosis... which can never be done until his mortal remains have finally been found and properly identified.

Until that DNA testing actually does happen, the historically popular haemophlia story will never be anything more than an unproven claim.  It is NOT a proven fact.

If a Platelet dysfunction was the cause of Alexei's blood disorder, then his seemingly mysterious recoveries are very easily explained... and the historically popular diagnosis of Haemophlia is most definitely WRONG !!

...and that is precisely the point of the September 2004 American Journal of Hematology paper.

JK
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 01:29:14 PM by J_Kendrick »

Offline Grace

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #158 on: September 12, 2006, 06:14:29 PM »
J?  This thread is called "Possible Cause Of Some Of Alix's Illnesses".  I am not sure why you have made post after post on her son.  ???

Lemur

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #159 on: September 13, 2006, 09:57:38 AM »
It is very sad how stress and worry can age and even kill a person.

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #160 on: September 13, 2006, 10:06:32 AM »
Yes, it is, and that was undoubtedly behind some of her illnesses. Anyway, this thread is going off topic with all the Alexei business.

J_Kendrick

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #161 on: September 13, 2006, 01:47:47 PM »
J?  This thread is called "Possible Cause Of Some Of Alix's Illnesses".  I am not sure why you have made post after post on her son.  ???

The inference was made that some of Alexandra's symptoms may have been due to a suspected, but still unproven, carrier gene that is believed to have caused her son's suspected, but still unproven, blood disorder.  Comments were made and questions were asked that could not be left unanswered.

... and now, in the effort to return to the original topic of this thread, to ask for a second time...

Given her age at the time of the murders, has anyone ever considered whether any of Alexandra's symptoms could have been evidence of an early onset of menopause?

jk

Offline Grace

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #162 on: September 13, 2006, 04:55:29 PM »
I see, thank you.  :)

I doubt if Alexandra's symptoms could have been due to the effects of menopause because they had been continuing for such a length of time.  For example, Alexandra was said to have suffered from red, blotchy flushing of her face when attending official duties very early on, I believe, just after marriage, so I really think the majority of her physical problems were related to her state of mind.

Mazukov

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #163 on: September 14, 2006, 09:54:31 AM »
I would tend to think it was all stress related. Lets for a second put, LOVE. On the side. We know of her love for her husband. We know how important it was for her to bore a son and heir. We also know of her turbulent relationship with the royal court. As we see in past photos before her son was born and then after. The change in her is very dramatic. Being the fact that once the hire was born she should have been relived, instead because of his illness it became total stress on her. It worn her down physically and most importantly mentally.

Let us say for example if Alexei wasn’t ill then Rasputin would have never been a factor in the IF lives, that her being bent on anything or anyone that could help him wouldn’t have been a factor I think her level of stress would have greatly reduced. as would a lot of her physical conditions.

Offline Romanov_fan

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #164 on: September 14, 2006, 10:19:11 AM »
You out it well, very well. I am not sure it was all stress related- some doubt exists in my mind there- but the stress was one of the main causes, yes.