Author Topic: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2  (Read 167022 times)

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Offline Tdora1

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #315 on: March 10, 2009, 05:59:31 PM »
What tests Helen?
What tests were made upon the exhumed and identified remains of the Tsarina?
What substances did they test for and what were the results?
-Just because no tests showed any results for drugs doesn't mean any tests were in fact ever done!

- After 80 years, nothing of her fleshly remains were left to test for tissue and if any tissue were by chance left, no drugs trace would survive anyway.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:48:57 AM by Alixz »
Acts of injustice done
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Offline Tdora1

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #316 on: March 10, 2009, 06:10:13 PM »
Alix's remains were a few pulpy smashed remnants of skeleton fragments in the pit of a forest.
Nothing was left which could have yielded any remnants of testable substance.
her mitochondrial DNA was eventually extracted with much difficulty - but that doesn't mean the pulp left from the centifuge will throw up traces of her barbiturate and morphine habits too...it is not chemiically possible.

All we have is the diaries and records.  They show that Alix was a pill-popper of severe proportions.

The fragments of her corpse yield nothing. Even her cause of death had to be satisified by eyewitnes testimony before her skull was positively idenified.
Acts of injustice done
Between the setting and the rising sun
In history lie like bones, each one.

W.H. Auden The Ascent of F6

Offline Helen

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #317 on: March 11, 2009, 03:49:22 AM »
 If you could find the time to re-read my posts, you would see that I didn't claim anything about traces of barbiturates or morphine shown in remnants or whatever.

All I did was refer to remarks that Janet Ashton had made on an other thread, where the specific theory was discussed whether the Empress  suffered from porphyria, and the chapter discussing this theory added in later editions to "Purple Secret" by John C.G. Roehl et al. (of which I only have a first edition.)  If you are interested in Janet's remarks, I think you can easily find them using the Search function.  :)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:50:30 AM by Alixz »
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"
"Ludwig IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine - Gebhard Zernin's Festschrift"

Offline violetta

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #318 on: March 11, 2009, 08:25:07 AM »
it is a well-known fact that AF took drugs like barbiturates. Felix Yusupov in his memories on the murder of Rsputin also mentions that Nickolay II took drugs as well. Yusupov decided to murder Rasputin so he decided to establish a closer relation with him through Munya Golovina, Rasputin`s admirer  and adherer. When Rasputin and Yusupov became a sort of "friends", the former boasted about his influence on N and A. At that time a  famous doctor Badmaev was also admitted to Aleksandra Fedorovna`s ( it was during WW1), and Rasputin boasted that the Tzar is given some "herbs" that make hhim "calm" and make him "obey". I guess , these were some herbs which, taken in bigger doses, could have produced such an effect. I will try to find an appropriate passage in Yussupov1s book

Robert_Hall

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #319 on: March 11, 2009, 10:25:50 AM »
We also need to see this in the context of the times: these drugs and "herbs [I can only imagine what those were!] were not seen in the same light as today.  As I recall, cocaine was used to relieve dental distress and Nicholas II had notoriously bad teeth problems. Opium and it's derivatives was in common use as well.  The British made fortunes over that. Alexandra was equally well known for her aches & pains. Much of which, I suspect was due to hypochondria. But who would refuse her what she wanted ?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:51:41 AM by Alixz »

Offline violetta

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #320 on: March 11, 2009, 11:20:57 AM »
true, no one could have refused to meet Alexandra`s requirements. ;) Apart from being the Empress she was very persevering and obstinate. As long as she had anything in mind she was able to go to any lengths to get it or to make someone get it for her i. e. her husband said that he preferred 1 Rasputin to 7 feats of hysteria a day  ;)But in case of   Rasputin and Badmaev and the  latter`s herbs, it was their deliberate wish to make NII 'as meek as a lamb" ( I believe this is the precise quotation) even to replace him with AF. So Rasputin & Badmaev did not give the Tsar these herbs for purely therapeutic purposes  ;) but deliberately wanted to govern his will for Go knows what purposes.  Rasputin admitted this during  his meetings with Felix Yusupov.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:52:59 AM by Alixz »

Offline Helen

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #321 on: March 11, 2009, 11:57:24 AM »
We also need to see this in the context of the times: these drugs and "herbs [I can only imagine what those were!] were not seen in the same light as today.  As I recall, cocaine was used to relieve dental distress and Nicholas II had notoriously bad teeth problems. Opium and it's derivatives was in common use as well. 
Indeed. Cocaine and opium were used more freely then and people seemed less aware of the effects the sustained use of these substances might have on one's health. If I recall correctly, Nicholas and Alexandra did think of the addictiveness of certain drugs with regard to the substances Alexei was prescribed.

As regards herbs, I look forward to details about the calming herb species Rasputin referred to. It may have been the elixir discussed elsewhere on this forum, containing hashish and henbane. Medical cannabis is still used to treat pain nowadays - available only on prescription.

Have other sources than Rasputin confirmed that Badmaev prescribed this specific elixir to make Nicholas 'meek'?
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"
"Ludwig IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine - Gebhard Zernin's Festschrift"

Offline Terence

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #322 on: March 11, 2009, 12:27:24 PM »
But in case of   Rasputin and Badmaev andthe  latter`s herbs, it was their deliberate wish to make NII 'as meek as a lamb" ( I believe this is the precise quotation) even to replace him with AF. So Rasputin & Badmaev did not give the Tzar these herbs for purely theraupetic purposes  ;) but deliberately wanted to govern his will for Go knows what purposes.  Rasputin admitted this during  his meetings with Felix Yusupov.

So the source for this tale...that Rasputin and Badmiev conspired to use herbs to control Nicholas...is Felix Y.?  Ummm, perhaps a self-serving tale by Rasputin's murderer should be verfied from another source and not accepted unquestioned as the truth.

Anyone know of any other source to confirm Felix's claim?

T


Robert_Hall

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #323 on: March 11, 2009, 01:49:49 PM »
Good question Terrence.  I know I have read about this is  several books, but, I do not remember if they all used Yussoupov as the source. I would agree that was a bit "sensational" in his writings. So might be taken  with a grain of salt.

Offline violetta

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #324 on: March 11, 2009, 04:36:03 PM »
Well, I`ll be in the libray on Friday so I`ll provide you with Yussupov`s quotations. please, be patient. anna karenina took opium according to her doctor`s prescription as a ...sleeping pill so I believe it was a usual CURE ;) for the members of the highest society

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #325 on: March 11, 2009, 04:51:27 PM »
anna karenina took opium according to her doctor`s prescription as a ...sleeping pill so I believe it was a usual CURE ;) for the members of the highest society

I read this too.

Offline nena

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #326 on: March 11, 2009, 05:11:52 PM »
Also read Rasputin used some special kind of medecines to control the Tsar. I don't believe in it.
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Robert_Hall

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #327 on: March 11, 2009, 08:14:52 PM »
So many things have been written about Rasputin, mostly negative, it is hard to know what to believe about him. He clearly had strong influence on the Empress, but controlling the Emperor ?  Nicholas may have had some sort of "herbal" tea, but I doubt he was controlled by anyone but his wife.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:55:55 AM by Alixz »

Offline Geniebeanie

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #328 on: March 11, 2009, 09:10:22 PM »
I have a queston.  When she was a child she injured her legs really bad.   Could that be part of the reason she had so much pain with her legs as a adult?

Offline amartin71718

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #329 on: March 11, 2009, 10:04:19 PM »
Most likely. The lacerations probably caused nerve damage. Also, her sciatica contributed to the problem, because sciatic pain shoots down the person's legs. It is very painful.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 09:56:24 AM by Alixz »
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