Author Topic: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2  (Read 162796 times)

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Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #330 on: March 11, 2009, 11:48:34 PM »
I even wonder how many times were she able to stand up alone and walk through Tsarskoe.

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Offline violetta

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #331 on: April 29, 2009, 02:51:55 PM »
I read in someone`s memories (I don`t emember whose memories they were) the following thing. the author of these memories once saw a happy Imperial family walking in the Tsarskoe Selo garden. "Walking" was about all the members of the family except for Alexandra Feodorovna. She was in a wheelchair pushed by Nikolay II.The tzar pushed her wife`s chair and the were laughing loudly and happily....

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #332 on: September 18, 2009, 03:30:45 AM »
This is a very interesting summary of the Empress' medical condition, couldnt find it on the forum anywhere.

Extract 'Last Years at the Court of Tzarskoie-Selo' English Edition by Alexander. I. Spiridovitch

Empress Alexandra Fedorovna belonged to the family of Hesse,

‘The morbid history of illness within the Hesse family was transmitted
in the male line, in the form of haemophilia,
Empress Alexandra Fedorovna belonged to the family of Hesse,
known for its morbid moods. She was the daughter of Grand Duke
Louis of Hesse and Princess Alice, the fourth daughter of Victoria,
Queen of England, her paternal grandfather and her father had been
sick for most of their lives. Her brothers and sisters had suffered from
hereditary diseases,

Page 284 Last Years at the Court of Tzarskoie-Selo

‘an illness accompanied by changes in the neurovascular system and
in the composition of the blood itself’. In the female side of the bloodline,
the hereditary illness was apparent in other forms. Grand Duchess
Elizabeth Fedorovna was a very sick lady.

‘For Alexandra Fedorovna, the hereditary illness was manifested, in
her youth, through a very weak nervous system and great impressionability;
later, due to the unfavourable conditions of life at the
Court, the nervous system began to show definite alterations, hystero
-neurasthenic phenomena and some psychological problems.
‘The hysteric nature of the nervous symptoms is proven to us through
the ease with which the Empress accepted positive suggestions from
some, and negative suggestions from others.
‘Her neurasthenic symptoms are apparent in the form of a great
weakness ‘asthenia’ in the body in general, and in the cardiac muscle
in particular, with painful sensations in the precordial region.
‘These complaints are also associated with oedema in the legs, due to
poor circulation’.
‘The problems in the neurovascular system just mentioned are also
evidenced by the regular changes in skin colour ‘dermographism’ and
by the appearance of rather large red patches on the face’.
‘As for the psychological problems ‘loss of psychological balance’,
these are mainly shown through a state of deep depression, a great
indifference to everything around her, and a tendency towards religious
daydreaming’.
‘The neurovascular phenomena concerned here ‘dilation or constriction
of the vessels’ become more pronounced as the critical age approaches.
They are then complicated by a feeling of anxiety, a weakening
of centres of inhibition, and intellectual problems mainly affecting
the logical functioning of intellectual functions.’
It was this illness, hysteron-neurasthenia, which had caused the Empress’
exaggerated likes and dislikes, her bizarre way of thinking and
acting, her religious exaltation, her belief in the supernatural in general,
and her faith in Rasputin in particular.
Initially, her illness had only affected her personal life and that of her
family. But as the critical age approached, and the illness became
more and more pronounced, the Empress had felt the need to intervene
in State matters,
‘an illness accompanied by changes in the neurovascular system and
in the composition of the blood itself’. In the female side of the bloodline,
the hereditary illness was apparent in other forms. Grand Duchess
Elizabeth Fedorovna was a very sick lady.
‘For Alexandra Fedorovna, the hereditary illness was manifested, in
her youth, through a very weak nervous system and great impressionability;
later, due to the unfavourable conditions of life at the
Court, the nervous system began to show definite alterations, hystero
-neurasthenic phenomena and some psychological problems.
‘The hysteric nature of the nervous symptoms is proven to us through
the ease with which the Empress accepted positive suggestions from
some, and negative suggestions from others.
‘Her neurasthenic symptoms are apparent in the form of a great
weakness ‘asthenia’ in the body in general, and in the cardiac muscle
in particular, with painful sensations in the precordial region.
‘These complaints are also associated with oedema in the legs, due to
poor circulation’.
‘The problems in the neurovascular system just mentioned are also
evidenced by the regular changes in skin colour ‘dermographism’ and
by the appearance of rather large red patches on the face’.
‘As for the psychological problems ‘loss of psychological balance’,
these are mainly shown through a state of deep depression, a great
indifference to everything around her, and a tendency towards religious
daydreaming’.
‘The neurovascular phenomena concerned here ‘dilation or constriction
of the vessels’ become more pronounced as the critical age approaches.
They are then complicated by a feeling of anxiety, a weakening
of centres of inhibition, and intellectual problems mainly affecting
the logical functioning of intellectual functions.’
It was this illness, hysteron-neurasthenia, which had caused the Empress’
exaggerated likes and dislikes, her bizarre way of thinking and
acting, her religious exaltation, her belief in the supernatural in general,
and her faith in Rasputin in particular.
Initially, her illness had only affected her personal life and that of her
family. But as the critical age approached, and the illness became
more and more pronounced, the Empress had felt the need to intervene
in State matters,

« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 03:48:37 AM by Nobility »

historyfan

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #333 on: September 22, 2009, 10:00:49 PM »
I'm actually surprised no one's commented on this.  Myself, I don't know what to make of it, really.

Offline amartin71718

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #334 on: September 22, 2009, 10:33:06 PM »
Grand Duchess Elizabeth Fedorovna was a very sick lady.
GD Ella was sick? What? I've never heard anything like that. Or is that a typo?
I'm back on my bull****.

Offline RealAnastasia

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #335 on: September 22, 2009, 11:26:58 PM »
After reading all the info you posted - very useful, for say the least! - I can conclude more than ever, that the Empress suffered from psychosomatic symptoms, but that, at the same time, she had a REAL illness, in this case, troubles at the neurovascular system.

But there's a thing that amazed me a lot: the depiction of the pains she used to felt al the pericordial region. This is typical of acute panics disorders, as Panic Attack, to quote only one of these. When the Empress felt that she was almost to faint, he heart began to pound lloudly, and her face would began to cover of red blotches while her lips would become blue-ish and her chest was suddenly in pain, she seemed to be clearly suffering of Panic Attack.

Do you know if she suffered from all these symptoms after or before Alexei's birth? I think it's quite important...

RealAnastasia.

Nobility

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #336 on: September 24, 2009, 07:37:39 AM »
RealAnastasia./Marty/History Fan

Yes the extent of the illness being quite different on the female side of the family, surprised me as well.

In the Book Vol 1 English translation[/url] of Alexander Spiridovitch, Spiridovitch is quoting a conversation he had with on of the respected medic professors, that knew the Empress' ailments.

The onset of the illness in a serious form occured well after the birth of the heir, and was at the time of their visit to Livadia, in the Crimea.

For me it puts a different slant on her life as she became more unwell.

Its very sad, and she must have known the seriousness of the decease and had to live with so much of her life.

I think the reason this hasnt been out there before at least in such detail is because the Memoirs have never been fully translated, before,

There is a great deal more.

Nobility




Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #337 on: September 24, 2009, 02:25:37 PM »

RealAnastasia./Marty/History Fan

Yes the extent of the illness being quite different on the female side of the family, surprised me as well.

In the Book Vol 1 English translation[/url] of Alexander Spiridovitch, Spiridovitch is quoting a conversation he had with on of the respected medic professors, that knew the Empress' ailments.

The onset of the illness in a serious form occured well after the birth of the heir, and was at the time of their visit to Livadia, in the Crimea.

For me it puts a different slant on her life as she became more unwell.

Its very sad, and she must have known the seriousness of the decease and had to live with so much of her life.

I think the reason this hasnt been out there before at least in such detail is because the Memoirs have never been fully translated, before,

There is a great deal more.

Nobility





Hi
  While Spiridovich's view is interesting as being that of a contemporary I think it's important to note that he makes a few errors which cause one to question the extent of his medical knowledge. He is wrong, for example, to say that the illness came from her father's side of the family; and I am not sure that he is correct in his assessment of her father's health; still less that of her siblings. Two of her sisters lived to the age of 87; Alexandra's father was healthy when young and died in middle age of cardio-vascular disease unrelated to hemophilia (which of course was not in his family). He may, of course, have passed on a tendency to hypertension or heart disease to his daughter. Alexandra herself believed that he problems were caused by stress, which is plausible in both psychological and physical terms. Of course, hemophilic women (i.e. carriers) may bleed more than other women, but I am not sure how this would produce the "nervous" symptoms Alexandra had. To state that her intervention in state affairs was due to "hysteria" and hormones etc is very much the view of an Edwardian/Victorian male, I feel! :-)

Best wishes

Janet
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many; they are few.

Nobility

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #338 on: September 24, 2009, 06:33:31 PM »
Hi Janet,

The extract from his book was quoted as being an opinion from one of the medical professors in Russia at the time , not so much Spiridovitchs' personal opinion.

However I do have the feeling, his Victorian male attitude was behind some of his observations, not just here but in a few places in his book.

He interestingly enough describes the nervous illness the Empress had in the same way as he describes that of his own wife, who although also afflicted with Cholera was admitted to a mental institution, he goes on to say that in those days, nervous illness as he describes it was not yet really recognised as the mental illness, that apparently it was.

It sounds a little like the opinions we hear to day regarding depression being now considered a form of mental sickness, the stigma around the word 'mental' being sadly seen as a person being a loony.

Maybe the Empress apart from the physical ailments, suffered severe depression, and frankly given the pressures of the times, I am not surprised

Nobility

Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #339 on: September 25, 2009, 12:13:00 PM »
Hi Janet,

The extract from his book was quoted as being an opinion from one of the medical professors in Russia at the time , not so much Spiridovitchs' personal opinion.

However I do have the feeling, his Victorian male attitude was behind some of his observations, not just here but in a few places in his book.

He interestingly enough describes the nervous illness the Empress had in the same way as he describes that of his own wife, who although also afflicted with Cholera was admitted to a mental institution, he goes on to say that in those days, nervous illness as he describes it was not yet really recognised as the mental illness, that apparently it was.

It sounds a little like the opinions we hear to day regarding depression being now considered a form of mental sickness, the stigma around the word 'mental' being sadly seen as a person being a loony.

Maybe the Empress apart from the physical ailments, suffered severe depression, and frankly given the pressures of the times, I am not surprised

Nobility

I suspect Alexandra did suffer from depression (her mother and also her grandfather Prince Albert had a tendency that way, and I think her frequent weeping is a sign of this too) - and what you say of Spiridovich's wife is very interesting: he might almost have been reading his own situation into the imperial family's.....I wonder indeed which doctor discussed the Empress with him; it would appear to be rather a breach of the Hippocratic oath....!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many; they are few.

Nobility

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #340 on: September 25, 2009, 04:04:04 PM »
Janet this is the precise extract:

 'This is what I was told by one of the famous Russian professors, who was well informed as to the health issues presenting the Empress.'

Unfortunately doesn't tell us much, I have the impression that under the guise of security Spiridovitch was allowed to have most information he asked for, he even tells of foreign specialists secretly visiting  while at Livadia being picked up at night so as not to draw attention of those in the court.

As you know she ended up only listening to her own palace doctor, who it is stated just gave her what she asked for. She apparently drank carrot juice , as she claimed it thinned her blood and she prayed a great deal, not greatly dissimilar to the way some of us deal with life and health issues today!

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #341 on: September 28, 2009, 07:24:17 AM »
It's interesting that parts of her diet, such as drinking carrot juice, was thought at the time as 'faddy' and showed she was probably mentally not-quite-right, but is now considered very healthy and sensible.  In many ways health is as much a matter of fashion as anything else. 

historyfan

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #342 on: September 28, 2009, 09:32:57 PM »
It's interesting that parts of her diet, such as drinking carrot juice, was thought at the time as 'faddy' and showed she was probably mentally not-quite-right, but is now considered very healthy and sensible.  In many ways health is as much a matter of fashion as anything else. 

She was ahead of her time in more ways than one, that's for sure.  Imagine her as, say, a Raisa Gorbachev!  Or even Nancy Reagan or Michelle Obama!  What she could have accomplished as a "First Lady" in the 20th century!

Offline Clemence

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #343 on: January 10, 2010, 03:31:32 AM »
Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, but have you ever seen any kind of medical report on a possible sociophobic disturb of the empress
(or whatever they could call it in her times)?
'' It used to be all girls without clothes. Now it’s all clothes with no girls. Pity.''

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Re: Alexandra and her Health Part 2
« Reply #344 on: January 10, 2010, 06:25:00 AM »
Going back to the original report, is there much information about Ella's health?

Incidentally, in Britain drinking carrot juice would be seen as mildly faddy (being a bit TOO dedicated to 'healthy eating')

Ann