Author Topic: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?  (Read 38830 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2011, 10:23:27 PM »
I don't remember if they tested each of the daughters' remains for haemophilia or not.

They did -- only one was a carrier.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline stacey

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 158
  • I wanna be a princess when I grow up!!
    • View Profile
    • Knowitall
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2011, 12:39:19 PM »
All of this is news to me too--absolutely fascinating! I had no idea that any of the girls had been tested for being hemophilia carriers, didn't know it was possible--at least not with only bones available for testing!

My own opinion is that the last girl found (with Alexei) is Anastasia. Not that I know anything about forensics or anything but it seems the weight of evidence points to that, based on what I've read.

It would be tragic (altho entirely possible) for any and all of the girls to be carriers. But somehow it seems most poignant if Marie were a carrier of the hemophilia gene--esp. if she was the only one of the sisters. Because of all of them, Marie most loved children and longed to marry and have lots and lots of children--poor thing, imagine if she had, only to lose several of them to hemophilia!!  :(
Sola Nobilitas Virtus

thelastimpofrussia

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2011, 08:21:50 PM »
I don't remember if they tested each of the daughters' remains for haemophilia or not.

They did -- only one was a carrier.
Which one? The skeleton number, or?

Could have been Maria, because of the tonsils's operation?

Olga Bernice

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2011, 08:44:02 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, it was. But I'm willing to be corrected if necessary  ;)

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2011, 11:40:16 PM »
I don't remember if they tested each of the daughters' remains for haemophilia or not.

They did -- only one was a carrier.
Which one? The skeleton number, or?

Could have been Maria, because of the tonsils's operation?

It was the skeleton that the American's labeled as Maria. I think that's No. 5. This would make sense if you consider the tonsil operation, it would make her a symptomatic carrier.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

thelastimpofrussia

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2011, 12:17:16 AM »
Checking sources now *bee boop bee boop* yeah, I had to do that :) skeleton number 5 was identified as Maria by the Americans, and Tatiana as the Russians. Other fun facts; the American statistics put the height at 171 cm, and at least twenty years old. Russians had 162-167 cm and 20-24 years of age. Youngest of the 5 women found, limb bones has just stopped growing. Middle of face was crushed. (most likely butt of rifles caused this.) pm me if you like, and I can send my info tomorrow.

Offline Holly

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1411
  • www.otma.org
    • View Profile
    • otmaa.org
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2011, 07:33:52 PM »
And yet despite all the evidence of it being Maria -- they still continue to call it Anastasia. Ha.

"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

http://www.otmaa.org -- Coming Soon.

LondonGirl

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2011, 07:07:16 PM »
It's most likely statistically that 2 of the sisters were carriers. On average.

My understanding of the nature of the DNA testing carried out on the remains found was that an amplification method was used to enhance and project a limited sequence of degraded mitochondrial chromosomal sequences. How in this was identification of a linked haemophilia B component located??

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2011, 11:26:46 PM »
You'll find more information about the DNA tests in The Final Chapter forum.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Rodney_G.

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2011, 06:27:36 PM »
I'll ask straight up: given their parentage ( especially their mother as a hemophilia gene carrier), what are the odds of any one daughter carying the gene? or of all four daughters? Admittedly, my knowledge of geneatics is sketchy, but I would think that insofar as a child gets half her genes from her mother, and Alexandra was  a carrier, why wouldn't all the daughters necessarily inherit the gene for haemophilia?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 06:41:13 PM by Rodney_G. »

Olga Bernice

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2011, 06:48:08 PM »
I know nothing about genetics either, but on the same note, Rodney, what prevents *none* of the girls to have had the gene? What prevents just one or two of them to have had the gene? I suppose it's just the way things play out -- but I have no idea at all. Sarushka . . .  ;)

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2011, 08:11:57 PM »
I made a chart of all the possibilities once. Here you go...

The odds for each individual GD being a carrier are 50%. It's quite possible (though IMO it's not very probable) that each of OTMA inherited Alix's normal x chromosome. I stink at math, but I'll give it a shot anyway. With four girls and 2 variables, I believe there are 16 possible outcomes. If A=normal and B=carrier, here are the possible arrangements for hemophilia carriers among the girls:

OTMA
AAAA - all normal
BBBB - all carriers
BAAA - Olga is a carrier
ABAA - Tatiana is a carrier
AABA - Maria is a carrier
AAAB - Anastasia is a carrier
BBAA - Big Pair are carriers
AABB - Little Pair are carriers
BAAB - Olga and Anastasia are carriers
BABA - Olga and Maria are carriers
ABBA - Tatiana and Maria are carriers
ABAB - Tatiana and Anastasia are carriers
ABBB - only Olga is normal
BABB - only Tatiana is normal
BBAB - only Maria is normal
BBBA - only Anastasia is normal

There's a 1 in 16 chance for each combination, which translates to 6.25%.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 08:15:07 PM by Sarushka »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2011, 08:27:13 PM »
I'll ask straight up: given their parentage ( especially their mother as a hemophilia gene carrier), what are the odds of any one daughter carying the gene?

That depends on how you look at it.

The odds of a single, specific daughter -- let's say Olga for example's sake -- being the only carrier are 6.25%.

But the odds of any random one of the four girls being a carrier are 6.25 x 4 = 25%.


Quote
or of all four daughters?

6.25%


Quote
I would think that insofar as a child gets half her genes from her mother, and Alexandra was  a carrier, why wouldn't all the daughters necessarily inherit the gene for haemophilia?

Alexandra had two X chromosomes -- one normal and one that carried hemophilia. Since each daughter only inherits one X chromosome from her mother, the odds are 50/50 that she'll get a healthy one.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 08:31:41 PM by Sarushka »
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King

Selencia

  • Guest
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2011, 01:26:35 AM »
Ok quick question about an earlier post, the bones found in the mine, Alexei and a sister, were the skulls found as well or just limbs? If the heads are missing, are they still trying to locate them?
I always assumed the new bodies were in the same shape as the ones in the forest; and those were mostly intact.

As for Anastasia being the carrier, there really doesn't seem to be much evidence to support that. Is it possible that none of the girls was a carrier; and why is it always speculation about M&A and not O&T?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 01:34:16 AM by Selencia »

Offline Sarushka

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia - A Haemophilia Carrier?
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2011, 08:44:37 AM »
Ok quick question about an earlier post, the bones found in the mine, Alexei and a sister, were the skulls found as well or just limbs? If the heads are missing, are they still trying to locate them?
I always assumed the new bodies were in the same shape as the ones in the forest; and those were mostly intact.

The bones were just fragments.



Quote
As for Anastasia being the carrier, there really doesn't seem to be much evidence to support that. Is it possible that none of the girls was a carrier; and why is it always speculation about M&A and not O&T?

DNA tests have shown that one of the thee daughters found in the first grave was a carrier of type B hemophilia. I don't know if they have specified which number skeleton is the carrier.
THE LOST CROWN: A Novel of Romanov Russia -- now in paperback!
"A dramatic, powerful narrative and a masterful grasp of life in this vanished world." ~Greg King