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Author Topic: Spanish Habsburg Infantas  (Read 28373 times)

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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« on: July 15, 2005, 10:17:52 AM »
I have a question. Anne of Austria, Queen consort of France, who lived from 1601 to 1666, was the daughter of a Spanish King, wasn't she? Then why is she always referred to as Anne of Austria. I know that the Spanish and Austrian royal families were very closely interelated but even so . . .
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 03:31:45 PM by trentk80 »
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umigon

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2005, 12:52:09 PM »
Yes, I see, but in Spain, Portugal and France, mainly in the first two, there is a great tradition for surnames, even more when they are Royal. Our king is Juan Carlos I de Borbón y Borbón, when Bourbons should really bear the surname Capet, the original one. I don't know, it is just different ways of acting.

Here in Spain you hear about Elena de Borbón, no one calls her Elena de España... because Borbón is her surname, the same way Austria was Anne's!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by umigon »
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ilyala

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2005, 08:22:31 AM »
i find it interesting that she had a childless marriage with louis xiii for twenty years and then bam! not one but two sons....


rumour has it that the fact that they happened right after mazarin showed up is no coincidence...  ::)
hum...  :P
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umigon

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2005, 06:14:05 AM »


Well, we know the exact date of Louis XIV's conecption: December 5th, 1637, when Louis XIII had to sleep with his wife in the Louvre because of a great storm...


Anne had no close relations (if they had any I can recall) with Mazarin at the time of both Louis and Philippe's births. She was probably always a faithful wife despite her husbands coldness and bitterness towards her.
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Lord_Arthur

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2005, 07:15:59 PM »
Did the Habsburgs from Spain and the Habsburgs from Austria get on well at the end of the seventeenth century?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 08:32:47 PM by trentk80 »
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umigon

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2005, 10:43:13 AM »


Well, it was more complicated than that. In 1695, when it was clear that Charles II wasn't going to have an heir, three parties were created within the Court:

1. Mariana of Austria, the Queen Mother, was the "leader" of one of them which supported her own great-grandson Joseph Ferdinand of Bavaria as the rightful heir. If the renunciation of infantas Ana Mauricia and María Teresa were legal, then it was really Joseph Ferdinand who should become King of Spain. María Antonia could have renounced in Austria to her Spanish claim, but without Charles's approval this renounce was invalid.

2. Mariana of Neuburg, the Queen Consort, was the "leader" of a second party which supported her own nephew, Archduke Charles of Austria (son of Emperor Leopold and Eleanor of Neuburg) as the rightful King. This party had Ana Mauricia, María Teresa and María Antonia's renunciations as legitimate. So the next in line was Archduke Joseph, but as he was heir of the Empire, the claim fell on his younger brother, Charles.

3. Cardinal Portocarrero, the most important advisor of King Carlos, supported the Duke of Anjou, Philip of Bourbon, grandson of Louis XIV and infanta - and former Princess of the Asturias - María Teresa. This party thought that Ana Mauricia and María Teresa's renunciations were only legal in order to avoid the Freench and the Spanish Crowns joining together in a unique kingdom. So, the rightful heir of King Carlos was his grand nephew Anjou.


It was more a political issue than a family confilct, although it would end up in that - and then into a European war. In 1697 Carlos chose Joseph Ferdinand as his heir because his party and his claim were the less controversial. But the child died in 1699 and the Succession issue became even more complicated. Queen Mariana, realising that the Queen Mother was dead, thought she could easily convince Carlos into naming her nephew the Archduke as his heir. But Carlos chose Anjou because he thought it was the right thing to do, he thought a divine right couldn't be avoided by a human document. When he died in 1700, the two parties (in which other countries had become involved) were ready to fight. And they did...
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 11:17:04 AM »
Gosh, it's so confusing! A family tree is needed really, to see all the different links of relativity...
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 04:45:00 PM by trentk80 »
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 02:06:27 PM »
Quote
Gosh, it's so confusing! A family tree is needed really, to see all the different links of relativity...

I'll try my best to explain the links, Prince.

King Carlos II had two sisters, the eldest was Infanta Maria Teresa and the youngest was Infanta Margarita.

When Maria Teresa married the French King Louis XIV she had to renounce to her rights to the Spanish throne. But according to her husband, her renounciation was invalid because her dowry was never paid.

When the youngest infanta, Margarita married Emperor Leopold I, it was her father's will that she would never lose her rights to the Spanish throne (because her husband was a Habsburg, unlike the Bourbon Louis XIV) and she would inherit her rights to her descendants, who were her daughter Maria Antonia and her grandson Joseph Ferdinand. So they had the best claim on the Spanish throne, according to King Philip IV's will.

On the other hand, Emperor Leopold didn't like the idea of losing the Spanish territories of the Habsburgs in favour of the Wittelsbachs or the Bourbons. That's why he made his daughter Maria Antonia to renounce to her rights when she married a Wittelsbach, but as Umigon explained, the renounciation was not valid. Moreover, Leopold and his sons by his third wife Eleonor were Habsburgs like King Carlos II of Spain, so he thought they had better rights than the Bourbon descendants of Infanta Maria Teresa and the Wittelsbach grandson of Infanta Margarita - who was also his grandson.

As we stated before, the chosen heir was Joseph Ferdinand, but after he died the next pretenders were Philip, Duke of Anjou, grandson of King Louis XIV and Infanta Maria Teresa; and Charles, Archduke of Austria, youngest son of Emperor Leopold and Empress Eleonor.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 04:49:06 PM by trentk80 »
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 02:48:49 PM »
Thanks sooooooo much!!

Also, wasn't Leopold's mother a Habsburg princess? And his sister was the mother of Carlos II and Margarita? Am I right, or just confused?  ???
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umigon

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 02:54:55 PM »
You are absolutely right, Leopold's mother was infanta doña María, younger sister of Felipe IV of Spain.


Leopold's sister, Marianna, was Felipe IV's second wife, which made her the mother of both Carlos II and Margarita, but not of María Teresa, who was Felipe's daughter by Isabel of France.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 03:02:29 PM »
Gosh, the Spanish and Austrian Habsuburgs were so inbred. It seems like after Carlos V separated the Empire they spent years trying to unite it again by marriage!  :P
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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
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"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

umigon

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 03:12:31 PM »
Certainly, the most inbred of the Hapsburgs was María Antonia, the daughter of Emperor Leopold and Margarita of Spain, she was called:

Maria Antonia
of Habsburg
of Habsburg
of Habsburg
of Habsburg
Wittelsbach
of Habsburg
of Habsburg
of Habsburg

and it still goes on!
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 06:15:17 PM »
Quote
Gosh, the Spanish and Austrian Habsuburgs were so inbred. It seems like after Carlos V separated the Empire they spent years trying to unite it again by marriage!  :P


It was their purpose. The Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs wanted to remain close and keep their vast empire away from other rival dynasties, so they began to marry among themselves more and more frequently. But the result was that, after some generations, this inbreeding brought the Spanish Habsburgs to extinction! And ironically, Spain fell in the hands of the Bourbons, the Habsburgs' main enemies.
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Offline Prince_Lieven

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 06:21:25 PM »
Quote

It was their purpose. The Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs wanted to remain close and keep their vast empire away from other rival dynasties, so they began to marry among themselves more and more frequently. But the result was that, after some generations, this inbreeding brought the Spanish Habsburgs to extinction! And ironically, Spain fell in the hands of the Bourbons, the Habsburgs' main enemies.


It's a funny old world.  ;D
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Offline trentk80

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Re: Spanish Habsburg Infantas
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2005, 06:23:19 PM »
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Certainly, the most inbred of the Hapsburgs was María Antonia, the daughter of Emperor Leopold and Margarita of Spain,


Imagine if Maria Antonia would have married her uncle Charles II and if they would have had any children. They would have been the most inbred royal children in history.
But Maria Antonia was healthy and normal, unlike her uncle Charles. Am I right, Umigon?

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