His arrest- date?- circumstances?

[Rodney_G.]

I have seen different dates for Nicholas' arrest-- the 8th or 9th of March, 1917 (Old Style).I lean toward the 8th but am not sure. In any case, did it occur at Stavka (Mogilev) or upon his return to Tsarskoe Selo? These are some pretty basic facts which I've recently realized I wasn't sure about. Also, who specifically, what officer  or Provisional Government authority , actually arrested him? And, far greater question, did he expect it , or did think he could continue moving about as an ex- Emperor and civilian in a country experiencing a revolution? I myself think his arrest came as a surprise to him, though it probably  shouldn't have.

Also why did it take almost a week to decide to arrest him after abdication? I know the Prov. Gov. had its  hands full  with the SP Soviet as well as with starting to run a huge country at war , but this rather casual attitude to a deposed Emperor at large amongst his (former) troops is pretty bizarre, though then again , maybe not, since , as I noted, things were really chaotic then.

I realise I've thrown the door open to a number of significant topics( more than I'd originally intended), but what the hey, let's have at it!
Oh, one more thing, was the arrest of Alexandra and the Imperial children intended to be simultaneous with Nicholas' , and was it in fact?
Again, let's do it!

[Elisabeth]

According to the documents published in A Lifelong Passion by Andrei Maylunas and Sergei Mironenko, the Provisional Government reached a decision on March 7, 1917, that Nicholas II, who was still in Mogilev at the time, would be arrested immediately upon his arrival at Tsarskoe Selo. His wife the former empress would be arrested at the same time. In the PG's decision, quoted in this book, no mention was made of the fate of the children,-- however, according to Count Benckendorff's memoirs, on March 8 he was informed by General Kornilov, Commander-in-Chief, that "as soon as the health of the children allowed it, the Emperor's family would be sent to Murmansk where a British cruiser would await them and take them to England" (p. 555). Gilliard also states in his memoirs that he first learned on March 8 that the tsar and his wife were shortly to be arrested.

Probably the confusion with the dates, Rodney, arises from the (natural, apparently it was not unexpected given the train schedules) delay in the former tsar's arrival at Tsarskoe Selo. While the decision of the Provisional Government to arrest the former emperor and empress was taken on March 7, they were only formally arrested on March 9, shortly after 11.15/11.30 AM, when Nicholas finally arrived at the gates of the Alexander Palace.

Nicholas only refers very obliquely to the arrest in his diary. On March 9, 1917, he writes:

I arrived at Tsarskoe Selo quickly and without mishap -- at 11.30. But God, what a difference, there were sentries on the street and in the park around the house, and ensigns of some sort in the entrance! I went upstairs and saw darling Alix and the dear children. She looked strong and well, but they were all lying in a darkened room. They are all feeling fine, except Maria who only developed measles a short time ago. We lunched and dined in Alexei's playroom. Saw dear Benckendorff. Went for a walk with Valia Dolg[orukov] and worked a little with him in the garden, as we aren't allowed to go further!! After tea I unpacked my things.

This is either the classic understatement of a man educated by a British tutor, or the denial of reality of a man who can no longer handle his own too real reality. Take your pick, there are various interpretations of NII's behavior after his abdication. My own sense is that the French Ambassador Paléologue was right, and Nicholas had experienced some kind of major nervous breakdown in the days leading up to and culminating in his abdication. He could no longer carry on and therefore his abdication came, on the most profound level, as a relief to him.

[Rodney_G.]

I thought I could pin down the occasion of his arrest most easily in Nicholas 'diary of those dates, but as you cited, Elisabeth, he somehow avoids mention of his own arrest. Clearly a form of denial, if the subject can't even be mentioned in his own personal diary. There seems as well to be a near historical consensus now that his removal came as a relief to him. I'm not surprised and in fact would be myself in his situation, though there would be some accompanying guilt for his awareness of shirking his duty both sacred and political. Not to say, dynastic.

[historyfan]

though there would be some accompanying guilt for his awareness of shirking his duty both sacred and political. Not to say, dynastic.

No doubt that would have something to do with his emotional breakdown once he was finally alone with his wife on his return to Tsarskoe Selo (if in fact it is true that he did dissolve in tears at that point).

[Forum Admin]

[Minutes of the Petrograd Soviet, March 16, 1917]
"Resolved:

1. That the Workers' Deputies be informed that the Executive Committee of the Soviet of Workers' and Soldiers' Deputies has resolved to arrest the dynasty of the Romanovs, and to propose to the Provisional Government that it make the arrest, together with the Soviet of Workers' Deputies. In case of a refusal, to inquire what the attitude of the Provisional Government will be if the Executive Committee itself makes the arrest. The reply of the Provisional Government to be discussed at a later meeting of the Executive Committee.

2. As regards Michael, to make an actual arrest, but formally to declare him to be subjected only to the actual surveillance of the revolutionary army.

3. As regards Nicholas Nicholaevich, in view of the danger of arresting him in the Caucasus, first to summon him to Petrograd, and to establish strict surveillance over him on the way.

4. The arrest of the women of the house of Romanov to be made gradually, depending upon the part played by each one in the activities of the old regime.

The question of how to make the arrests, as well as the organization of the arrests, is to be turned over to the military commission of the Soviet of Workers' Deputies for further elaboration. Chkheidze and Skohelev are instructed to communicate to the Government the resolution of the Executive Committee of the Soviet of Workers' Deputies."

"Protokoly,"
THE ARREST OF NICHOLAS ROMANOV In view of information received, that the Provisional Government has decided to permit Nicholas Romanov to depart for England, and that he is at present on his way to Petrograd, the Executive Committee has resolved to take extraordinary steps, immediately, for his detention and arrest. An order has been issued that our troops shall occupy all railway stations, and commissars with extraordinary powers have been despatched to the stations of Tsarskoe Selo, Tosno, and Zvanka.

It has been further decided to broadcast wireless messages to all cities, with instructions to arrest Nicholas Romanov and take extraordinary measures in general.

At the same time, it has been decided to inform the Provisional Government at once that it is the determination of the Executive Committee not to permit the departure of Nicholas Romanov for England, and to arrest him. It has been decided to confine Nicholas Romanov in the Trubestkoi Bastion of the Peter and Paul Fortress, changing its commanding personnel for this purpose. The arrest of Nicholas Romanov is to be made at all costs, even at the risk of a severance of relations with the Provisional Government.

"Protokoly", 29

 

[Robert_Hall]

Interesting, they actually order the arrest of the ENTIRE dynasty ? Also curious is the arerest of the women on a gradual basis. I wonder what was meant by that? Also, no mention of Alexandra by name.

[Rodney_G.]

FA's post is very interesting for what it says about the Petrograd Soviet, but in reality, though they were a very real and increasingly powerful and militant force at that moment, they lacked the formal authority to carry out arrests, and not just Nicholas' , but  that of the several others mentioned.Thus, though it passed   its resolution a good three days before the Prov. Gov. ordered Nicholas' arrest, the Petrograd Soviet never acted on it, and probably couldn't have carried it out by sheer force. The leading generals at Stavka, their military units, and the Front commanders farther afield acted to remove Nicholas from the throne and largely suported the PRov. Gov. That was quite a different thing from acquiescing to his seizure  by the most radical of the Soviets , who had been  openly calling for Nicholas' execution and whom the Russian military leadership fiercely opposed.

[Elisabeth]

[Minutes of the Petrograd Soviet, March 16, 1917]
"Resolved:

1. That the Workers' Deputies be informed that the Executive Committee of the Soviet of Workers' and Soldiers' Deputies has resolved to arrest the dynasty of the Romanovs, and to propose to the Provisional Government that it make the arrest, together with the Soviet of Workers' Deputies. In case of a refusal, to inquire what the attitude of the Provisional Government will be if the Executive Committee itself makes the arrest. The reply of the Provisional Government to be discussed at a later meeting of the Executive Committee.

2. As regards Michael, to make an actual arrest, but formally to declare him to be subjected only to the actual surveillance of the revolutionary army.

3. As regards Nicholas Nicholaevich, in view of the danger of arresting him in the Caucasus, first to summon him to Petrograd, and to establish strict surveillance over him on the way.

4. The arrest of the women of the house of Romanov to be made gradually, depending upon the part played by each one in the activities of the old regime.

The question of how to make the arrests, as well as the organization of the arrests, is to be turned over to the military commission of the Soviet of Workers' Deputies for further elaboration. Chkheidze and Skohelev are instructed to communicate to the Government the resolution of the Executive Committee of the Soviet of Workers' Deputies."

"Protokoly,"
THE ARREST OF NICHOLAS ROMANOV In view of information received, that the Provisional Government has decided to permit Nicholas Romanov to depart for England, and that he is at present on his way to Petrograd, the Executive Committee has resolved to take extraordinary steps, immediately, for his detention and arrest. An order has been issued that our troops shall occupy all railway stations, and commissars with extraordinary powers have been despatched to the stations of Tsarskoe Selo, Tosno, and Zvanka.

It has been further decided to broadcast wireless messages to all cities, with instructions to arrest Nicholas Romanov and take extraordinary measures in general.

At the same time, it has been decided to inform the Provisional Government at once that it is the determination of the Executive Committee not to permit the departure of Nicholas Romanov for England, and to arrest him. It has been decided to confine Nicholas Romanov in the Trubestkoi Bastion of the Peter and Paul Fortress, changing its commanding personnel for this purpose. The arrest of Nicholas Romanov is to be made at all costs, even at the risk of a severance of relations with the Provisional Government.

"Protokoly", 29

Thanks for this, it's extremely interesting. Of course, everyone should keep reminding themselves that at this point, in March 1917, the Executive Committee of the Petrograd Soviet was not yet calling the shots as far as the Romanov dynasty was concerned -- the Provisional Government was. But it certainly demonstrates what kind of popular pressure the Provisional Government was already under at this very early date, and goes a long way toward explaining why Kerensky and his cohorts were so eager to exile the IF -- either to Britain or to Siberia probably hardly mattered to them, no doubt they just wanted Nicholas and Alexandra and their innumerable relatives out of sight and out of mind, as soon as possible, and permanently. Obviously the IF was a major political liability for the Provisional Government, in so far as protecting the IF undermined the PG's credibility, its very legitimacy as a national government, not only in the minds of the Petrograd Soviet, but also and by extension, in the minds of many ordinary Petrograders, as well as Muscovites and other urban dwellers (the whole educated class in fact) throughout the former Romanov empire.

Sorry, Rodney, our posts crossed!

[Rodney_G.]

Obviously(our posts crossing), Elisabeth !  Though it's nice to find a confirmation of one's thinking.

[nena]

On page 113 of Steinberg's and Khrustalëv's 'The Fall of the Romanovs' you can read a 'declaration by 85 members of the Petrograd Soviet directed to the Executive Committee with the demand that the Provisional Government arrest all members of the House of Romanov', dated 7th March 1917, where the former Empress was mentioned as 'his traitorous wife', while Nicholas' mother was mentioned by her name. It contains four main points/orders, similar to FA's post. On the same day, the Government put Nicholas and Alexandra under arrest, 'be deprived...of their freedom', and gave order to deliver the former Emperor to Tsarskoe. Kerensky told to Moscow Soviet that NII would leave Russia by ship. So the another protocol of Executive Committee adopted measures to stop the Tsar from departing to England and needed his arrest. (Signed on the 9th March). Alexandra wrote in her diary on the 8th, 'from now on are considered pris: shut up - may see nobody fr. outside', and she was told this by General Lavr Kornilov; and the Tsar arrived on the following day, Thursday, 9th March in Tsarskoe, so I assume that he was arrested on 9th, officialy.