Author Topic: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet  (Read 9582 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2011, 03:35:13 AM »
The basic idea of the bayonet is that you use it in a final charge on the enemy's position, having worn them down with rifle fire, mortar fire and other means. So you are going at the enemy at the run, and the momentum provides additional force. By that time, in fact, the bayonet was very rarely used for its official purpose, having been superseded by grenades and the like, plus all kinds of unofficial nasties, such as homemade clubs studded with 6-inch nails.

When I was with the Army Cadet Force we used to teach 'section attacks', i.e. an attack by an 8-man unit on a position usually held by one or two. The final bit involved running at the enemy with bloodcurdling yells (the cadets particularly enjoyed that bit!) and finishing off the enemy by unspecified means.

Ann

Rodney_G.

  • Guest
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2011, 01:55:52 PM »
A good part of the decline in use of the bayonet after WWI was the advent and supremacy of the machine gun in that war. Though face-to-face combat still occurred , it became less common as the machine gun and improved riflery allowed combatants to kill  more easily at a distance. The bayonet wielded by a strong , screaming attacker was , nevertheless, capable of instilling great fear in any defender. Some  of the tougher soldiers even relished an opportunity to use it.
Thanks Nena! Moreover i did not know that one could use bayonets fixed on a gun (and not on a rifle). My endless weapons ignorance...

Sunny, if you're thinkiing that a bayonet might  be used on a handgun of any kind, it wasn't and couldn't be. I hope I understood you correctly. It could be detached from its rifle and wielded by hand as like a knife, as I believe, Ermakov used his that night.

Offline Kalafrana

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2912
    • View Profile
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2011, 02:20:56 PM »
If you can get hold of it, the Australian film, 'The Light Horsemen' shows bayonets being used as substitutes for swords. It is a depiction of the charge by the Australian Light Horse at Beersheba in 1917. They were mounted infantry (using horses as transport and expected to dismount to fight), so not equipped with swords. Instead they used their 18-inch bayonets to good effect.

Ann

Offline JamesAPrattIII

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
    • View Profile
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2011, 01:28:33 PM »
In looking at the picture of the actual bayonet used by Ermakov does anyoine know if there are any markings on it? The M-1895  bayonets were all stamped "Winchester Repeating Arms". If not could someone post this picture on the Great War forum. This is where I got my information on this weapon. Someone there might be able to confirm what type it is.

aleksandr pavlovich

  • Guest
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 03:43:51 PM »
In looking at the picture of the actual bayonet used by Ermakov does anyoine know if there are any markings on it? The M-1895  bayonets were all stamped "Winchester Repeating Arms". If not could someone post this picture on the Great War forum. This is where I got my information on this weapon. Someone there might be able to confirm what type it is.
 I have personally seen what is reputed to be this bayonet twice at close range on exhibition in Delaware, USA. I do not recall if any smaller markings were present on the blade, of which only one side was visible, to my recollection. The exhibition was "Nicholas and Alexandra/The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia," in 1998/1990.  The catalogue of the exhibition states the following (on page 382/ Item 616):  " 616  Bayonet Blade from a Winchester Rifle used in the Murder of the Imperial Family, 54 x 3.5 cm, Office of the Public Prosecutor of the Russian Federation / This bayonet blade was handed over to the Office of the Public Prosecutor of the Russian Federation in the mid-1990s by M. M. Medvedev, the son of one of those who took part in the execution."   (As an aside, I think it is interesting how the wording changes from "Murder" to "execution.")   Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 03:51:17 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline JamesAPrattIII

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
    • View Profile
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2011, 10:20:36 AM »
Looking at a picture of an 8 inch long bayonet for a Winchester M-1895 on the great war forum , section on arms it does look like one

Offline Petr

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
    • View Profile
Re: Ermakov's 8 inch bayonet
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 04:15:13 PM »
A good part of the decline in use of the bayonet after WWI was the advent and supremacy of the machine gun in that war. Though face-to-face combat still occurred , it became less common as the machine gun and improved riflery allowed combatants to kill  more easily at a distance. The bayonet wielded by a strong , screaming attacker was , nevertheless, capable of instilling great fear in any defender. Some  of the tougher soldiers even relished an opportunity to use it.

And was also used to great effect in WWII in close in fighting.  When charging a position bayonets were still quite useful.

Petr 
Rumpo non plecto