Author Topic: Chronology of news of Romanov murders  (Read 5267 times)

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Rodney_G.

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Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« on: November 08, 2011, 06:35:16 PM »
  What is known of the timing and sequence of revelations of the murder of the Imperial Family at Ekaterinburg? Specifically this:
Though the Bolsheviks publicly announced Nicholas" execution on the 18/19 of July, 1918, as we know they claimed that Alexandra and the family "were removed to a  safe place." Thus there was very little thought that Nicholas hadn't been shot.

The murders of the remaining six Romanovs were another story. The Bolsheviks, over time, variously denied, lied about,  and/or claimed ignorance of Alexandra and AOTMAA's fate. And yet gradually, and piecemeal, there were vague, and sporadic admissions  (or at least non-denials) that they had been killed. The first more or less official acknowledgement came in the late Twenties I believe. And yet, of course, people DID know. It couldn't really have been kept secret and wasn't . But the vagueness and uncertainty Did serve Soviet purposes, blame and condemnation having been delayed and diffused over time.

What I'm asking for, then, is posters' input, and as specifically as possible, citations of Soviet admissions of , or public revelations of , the Imperial murders. The reactions of King George V of Great Britain and , I think, US President Wilson are known, but what degree of certainty did they have? Or, when was the first confirmed report in a newspaper? Again, this is not about Nicholas, but about Alexandra and the children.

The whole phenomenon of how the Bolsheviks escaped having to account for the IF to the world is fascinating and to me, unbelievable. They in effect were allowed to claim that the most famous prisoners in the world, in their custody, just sort of got lost, misplaced, or wandered off. "Who are these Romanovs of which you speak? Oh them. Don't ask me, I'm just a Soviet diplomat. I heard they moved to Sicily or somewhere. Care for some more Soviet caviar?"
So, what was known, when, and in what circumstance?


Offline TimM

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 12:45:44 AM »
Murderous regimes are notorious for not telling the truth, especially when it comes to murdering innocent people.   

The Nazis never came out about what they did to the Jews, rather they said the same thing as the Soviets:  "We don't know what happened to those people, they just disappeared."  Even now, when the facts are know, you'll get Holocaust deniers who'll say the same thing.  I remember an episode of Prime Time Live, in which they interviewed this neo-Nazi.  This guy sat there and said the Holocaust never happened, that the Jews just up and left.  When he was shown a picture of the ovens at Auswihtz (sp?), he just said it was a normal oven.  No matter what facts they showed this guy, he wouldn't accept it.

The Soviets were cut from the same thread.  They would make excuse after excuse to cover up their terrible crimes.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 03:36:39 AM »
I need to check the precise date, but some time in August 1918, according to Princess Marie Louise, she was told by George V that the Foreign Office had informed him that all were dead and asked her to break the news to Victoria Milford Haven.

By then, of course, the Whites had reached Ekaterinberg and may have found the original grave pit - I will need to check up on that.

So what the Bolsheviks admitted and what was known in the West may well have been two different things.

Ann

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 10:32:53 AM »
Exactly, Ann.

George V was given information about Nicholas' death by British intelligence. What they exactly knew is I believe still unknown by us - but the King was certain enough to tell VMH about her sister's death and that of her family.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 10:34:49 AM »
I will try to remember to check the date in Marie Louise's book when I'm at home this evening. As I recall, she isn't very specific, but some time in the latter half of August, so about a month after the massacre.

Ann

Rodney_G.

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 01:41:10 PM »

I need to check the precise date, but some time in August 1918, according to Princess Marie Louise, she was told by George V that the Foreign Office had informed him that all were dead and asked her to break the news to Victoria Milford Haven.

By then, of course, the Whites had reached Ekaterinberg and may have found the original grave pit - I will need to check up on that.

So what the Bolsheviks admitted and what was known in the West may well have been two different things.

Ann
Yes, Soviet admissions followed later, much later, than public knowledge. But then, what is "public knowledge"? In Russia, in the absence of an official Soviet admission that they had murdered five women and a crippled boy( not to mention the four others), which of course would not be forthcoming, the reality on the ground must have been strange and awful. Newspapers wouldn't be saying anything definitive, though possibly passing along survival rumors (as happened in many Western papers) and yet , by rumor and word-of-mouth, it would seem most Russians would have believed the whole family was killed within a month, maybe two.

This surreal uncertainty  would have been emotionally trying for millions of those still loyal to the Emperor and/or with the basic concern for the loss of such innocent lives.
I know Lenin wasn't exactly giving press conferences and that Bolshevik Russia was welll on its  path to pariah nation status, but it still amazes me that no halfway serious diplomatic pressure ever seems to have been exerted upon the Lenin regime to account for the whereabouts of AOTMAA. It's generally thought that the Bolsheviks feared offending the major western powers by murdering  the Romanov women and children and yet they did, and didn't suffer any more adverse world political reaction than they were already incurring and were apparently willing to put up with.
Anyway , I'd still  be interested in finding out about any newspaper confirmations anywhere in the world of those killings and of both official and public reaction  in the press. 

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 03:07:49 PM »
As I feared, Marie Louise is thoroughly non-specific about the date - she simply says it was a Sunday in summer. Even the 'in summer' is a bit of an educated guess from the context, but clearly it's before the end of the war. It's pp.186-87 anyway.

Ann

Offline TimM

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 04:13:41 PM »
Quote
I know Lenin wasn't exactly giving press conferences and that Bolshevik Russia was well on its  path to pariah nation status, but it still amazes me that no halfway serious diplomatic pressure ever seems to have been exerted upon the Lenin regime to account for the whereabouts of AOTMAA. It's generally thought that the Bolsheviks feared offending the major western powers by murdering  the Romanov women and children and yet they did, and didn't suffer any more adverse world political reaction than they were already incurring and were apparently willing to put up with

It was because the West had just finished one war and was not interested in starting another.  The same argument could be brought up why the Soviets were not pushed out of Eastern Europe after World War II.    Some, like General George Patton, was pushing to do that, but he, and others were told we'd just finished a war, and you want to start another.   No way.  Plus there was still Japan to deal with, and the Soviets would have been needed for that (only a select few knew of the Manhattan Project).
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 04:17:02 PM by TimM »
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Offline DNAgenie

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Re: Chronology of news of Romanov murders
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 04:53:43 PM »
Queen Marie of Romania wrote an article entitled "The Fallen Czar" for the Womens Home Companion Magazine on 20 July 1920.

You can read it at  http://www.tkinter.smig.net/QueenMarie/WomensHomeCompanion/index.htm