The Hesse siblings, children of GD Ludwig IV Part II

[Russka Princess]

so, i wanted to reply in the old topic, but i saw there was nowhere the to reply so i started a new one. Sorry  if it was wrong.

here i have found a another picture about the Hesse-Family with Serge and Louis.

[MademoiselleAndrea]

I have a question, not sure if this is the right place for it, but...
When the Hesses visited Queen Victoria in England, what mode of transportation did they take? Of course some sort of boat, but did they have a private ship/yacht? Any info would be apreciated!

Russka Princess, that's a very interesting photo. 1888 or '89, likely. I'm guessing that it's Ella sitting in the light-colored dress, and Victoria in the darker gown, with one of Victoria's children. And that would be Alix in the white dress by her father. Is that Irene sitting on the ground with Sergei?

[Helen]

I have the impression that they crossed The Channel or North Sea on common international ferries. In her letters to her brother and her friend Toni, Princess Alix mentioned several harbours of departure -  Vlissingen or Hook of Holland in the Netherlands or Oostende in Belgium - where international ferries to England departed from, and stil depart, in the cases of Hook of Holland and Oostende .  

Grand Duke Ludwig IV and Princess Alix certainly crossed the waters by 'ferry' when they travelled to Malta in 1890.

[MademoiselleAndrea]

That's interesting that they used public transportation. Was there even a special room or something of the sort for the royals? Surely they did not travel incognito, so some people might have recognized them and "bombarded" them, so to speak, with attention, it seems. Or maybe it was just that the Hesses were much less prominent royalty despite their connection with "the grandmother of Europe" and thus could travel publicly...

[Paul]

They probably had fewer problems w/ "bombardment" than we suspect. The Duke of Windsor once said that, before modern media, it was possible for even 'first line' royals to walk about in public w/ only a detective in tow. Most people didn't really recognise them very often. Television and photo-based tabloids were still about a century away from the Hesse siblings.

[Kalafrana]

It was quite usual then for royalty to travel incognito, often using one of their lesser titles. Queen Victoria used to stay in Nice as the Countess of Balmoral (no such title in fact), and Edward VII when Prince of Wales as the Earl of Chester. There is an interesting tale that the Kaiser once stayed in Llanwyrtydd Wells. a very small place in deepest Wales, as Prince Munster.

Ann

[MademoiselleAndrea]

Fasctinating...I knew that there wasn't much press back then, merely newspapers and a few magazines, but one would think that Queen Victoria, certainly, would have been recognized by some.
So would the Hesses have traveled under "The Grand Duke of Hesse..." and "Princess...of Hesse...", or one of those lesser titles?

And another completely of-subject question, but did Irene have a coming-out ball in 1882 when she turned 16? I know that Victoria and Elizabeth/Ella came out in 1881, when they were 18 & 17, (later because of mourning??) but I've never read a mention of Irene's debut...

[Kalafrana]

Apparently, some royalties, while incognito, took it amiss if they weren't recognised (Edward VII was one such!).

I think the usual thing was to use a lesser title. Princess Marie Louise regards that while married to Aribert of Anhalt, she went to North Africa for her health, accompanied by her brother Albert of Schleswig-Holstein. She made use of one of Aribert's lesser titles (I can't remember what it was), while Albert used one of his and went as Count Gravenstein. Just in case people got the wrong idea, Marie Louise made it clear that she was Countess X nee Gravenstein!

Now what was the protocol if one incognito royal bumped into another?

Ann

[MademoiselleAndrea]

I found this painting and am wondering if anyone knows anything about it. Alix, GD Ludwig, Alice, Ernest and...Ella? Victoria? Irene was younger when Alix was that age.

Seems to almost be a sort of complation of photo poses as there is a photo of Alix and her father in that position.

[grandduchessella]

The painting has been discussed before on the forums--which thread(s) I'm not exactly sure. The painting was done by von Angeli. Victoria was left out as she was considered 'too big' for the construction of the painting. Ella's likeness was found to be 'just like'. I think the image was finished and readied for Queen Vicitoria after Alice's death--it was painting very close to her passing. Photographs, such as the one with Alix and Ludwig, were made from the sittings. Individual portraits of Alice and Ernie were also done from these sittings.

[grandduchessella]

From other threads:

Von Angeli arrived in the spring of 1878 to work on the painting. He took a good number of photographs. Most of the work was completed before the Grand Duchess died that year. Alice wrote several letters to Queen Victoria detailing the sitting and why they picked the chilren they died--Victoria being 'too big' for instance though being the eldest she should have been in, she would have been 'too preponderant. Also that von Angeli was quite 'quite lost in admiration of Aliky and May'.

Yes, she wrote to QV about it. She was very pleased with how it was coming along. Victoria was left out because it was felt she was 'too big' and would throw the composition off. I don't know why Irene & May weren't included. Alice wrote that von Angeli thought Alix and May an adorable little pair. Most of the work was done before the illness his the family--all the preliminary sketches and photographs that were taken of the family during the sittings--but von Angeli apparently relied a bit on a prior work he'd done on Alice to finish her in the group portrait. When the GD brought his sorrowing family to visit QV in Feb 1879, he brought the now-finished portrait with him. QV was very pleased with it.

[MademoiselleAndrea]

Thank you for the info! I would have searched but as I couldn't see a signature, (in fact didn't think to look for one,) I wouldn't have known what to search by.
That is quite a puzzle why Irene and May were not included. Victoria being to "big", she wasn't plump, so that doesn't make sense.
It is interesting that Ella's hair was put up when she was only 14.

[CountessKate]

It is interesting that Ella's hair was put up when she was only 14.

She seemed to have an interim hair arrangement which was not quite adult, but not quite that of a girl, either.  In the 1870s women would normally have their hair pulled up so their necks at the back were bare (as in Princess Alice's in the painting).  Victorians were extremely sensitive about the rituals of age and disapproved of girls whose figures had changed, having skirts which were too short, and presumably, hair which was too 'childish'.  It marked that she was expected to behave in a more adult way, and perhaps join in a few more adult activities, such as more formal dinners; but not that she was in any way 'out' in society or ready for marriage. 

[grandduchessella]

Thank you for the info! I would have searched but as I couldn't see a signature, (in fact didn't think to look for one,) I wouldn't have known what to search by.
That is quite a puzzle why Irene and May were not included. Victoria being to "big", she wasn't plump, so that doesn't make sense.
It is interesting that Ella's hair was put up when she was only 14.

I think it was Victoria's height maybe that made her too big and would throw the composition off.

[Russka Princess]

 
im sure ill drive to Darmstadt again and than ill make few pics of the city and of the Mathildenhöhe

and i´ll share it here

i love this Citys Darmstadt & Sankt Petersburg!!  













Here you can look my Pics of the Romanovs,Hesse Family, Battenberg family


http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t154/rorykiss/