Author Topic: Carl Edward (Karl Eduard) Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Duke of Albany & family  (Read 97985 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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Thank you, Duke. That's very kind of you to say.  :)

From the worldroots site:



They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline grandduchessella

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Charles Edward (standing in kilt) with his sister Alice and cousins Margaret & Arthur Connaught:









from worldroots.com
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline grandduchessella

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From eurohistory:

"Carl Eduard was dethroned at the end of 1918.  He fared extremely well during the settlement negotiations with the German republic and his life of privilege continued almost unaffected.  In the late 1920's and early 1930's he was an enthusiastic supporter of this little movement that he thought offered such hope, National Socialism.  By the time the maniac overtook Germany, Carl Eduard and his former brother-in-law, August Wilhelm of Prussia, were convinced supporters of Hitler and full members of the Nazi Party.  Carl Eduard was responsible for giving Hitler legitimacy by publicly stating his support for Germany's new overlords, he was compensated with privileges, such as being able to award Coburg House Orders, retain full control of his property and leadership of the German Red Cross.

His demise was dreadful, such ignominy for a boy who was born with such great promise.  In fact, raised as a "good" Englishman, he ended striving his entire life to become a "good" German and thus fit in with his role as ruler of Coburg and Gotha.  He was a weakling, not the brightest light bulb in the store and a thoroughly sad man.  During his interrogation after 1945 he denied their had been a holocaust, to the horror of his wife, who was present during the interrogations.  Carl Eduard died in 1954 at the age of 70 years, wracked by cancer, his face disfigured, a son lost in the war, a daughter gone unconventional, another son married morganatically and yet his youngest son living abroad and completely uninterested in his Coburg inheritance.  Sad indeed."

also from eurohistory:

"Carl Eduard's fortune was decimated after the Second World War, not because he was a nazi, but because a large portion of it was in what became the DDR, remember that the "iron wall" was just a few miles out of Coburg and that Gotha, for example, was entirely overtaken by the Communist German state.

There were possessions in Austria, which the family retained, as well as possessions in and around Coburg.  The old Duke was devastated by it all and weakened by cancer, which eventually disfigured him as it ate up the right side of his face.  Add to this that one son had married morganatically and was out of the family, the second son was killed in the war (1943) - a war he did not care much to join, but had been forced to due to his own personal circumstances and the rejection these caused withiin the family circle - and the thrid son, and heir, was busy trying to build a life for himself in Latin America.  The Coburg affairs were in disarray for decades and it was not until the curent Head of House, Prince Andreas, assumed control in the 1970's that order was introduced to stop the chaos.

Today the family's fortune is restore to sanity, the family managed to get considerable compensation for lost possessions in the former DDR and a bright future is ahead."

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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ashdean

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Charlie was as much a victim of the circumstances of his birth as hundreds of others of his peers and millions of others of his countrymen in central Europe...At least he seems to have had a happy marriage and his wife "Dick" comes through as loyal & loving..

Offline CountessKate

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Charlie was as much a victim of the circumstances of his birth as hundreds of others of his peers and millions of others of his countrymen in central Europe

I'm not sure how voluntarily joining the Nazi party and getting punished for it by a short term of imprisonment and deprivation of inherited money makes him a victim of circumstances of his birth.  A victim of his abysmal choices perhaps.

basilforever

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He wasn't a victim, he was a disgrace. I can only imagine how his cousin George V despised him. It seems he ended up suffering appropriately for his crimes what with his face being eaten up by cancer, his wealth gone, and his family in disarray.

Martin

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After all his grandson is the present king of Sweden. So his family was not a complete disaster.

basilforever

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Yes his daughter Sybilla made a good marriage, unfortunately he wrecked the wedding ceremony with a Nazi parade as mentioned above.

ashdean

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Charlie was as much a victim of the circumstances of his birth as hundreds of others of his peers and millions of others of his countrymen in central Europe

I'm not sure how voluntarily joining the Nazi party and getting punished for it by a short term of imprisonment and deprivation of inherited money makes him a victim of circumstances of his birth.  A victim of his abysmal choices perhaps.
I said he was a victim of circumstance..that covers many things INCLUDING stupid,ill informed choices...

Offline grandduchessella

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I'm afraid I can't work up much sympathy for him. There were other royals who made the bad decision to support the Nazi regime and regretted it or renounced it or were members basically in name only or were used by the party or whatever. He was a virulent Nazi who rode the whole thing out, seemed to know a good deal about what was really going on since he visited the camps, and never renounced it at all.
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ashdean

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He wasn't a victim, he was a disgrace. I can only imagine how his cousin George V despised him. It seems he ended up suffering appropriately for his crimes what with his face being eaten up by cancer, his wealth gone, and his family in disarray.
I do not think George V would despise him..he died in early 1936..long before Nazism (although evil from the first minute of inception) reached its worst depravaties.....As for anyone thinking that dying ravaged by cancer is a justified end for anyone.. that means by wishing such things one is sinking as low as the evil doers one is talking about....Charlie was not a front ranking nazi..he like millions of other Germans knew about camps..maybe even gas chambers etc..but turned a blind eye..no excuse...just a fact..
I might add...and I am NOT looking for sympathy....although far younger than Charlie was ...I have survived cancer and I would not wish on my worst enemy to go through what I went through.. basil..you are young..at yr age all seems black & white..but you will find as you get oldr many shades of grey in human nature...and do not wish anyone to  have family problems or poverty or certainly not to suffer...

Offline grandduchessella

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He actually seems to have been a pretty important member of the Nazi party. And his cousin George V was far ahead of many people in despising the Nazi party and fearing what they might bring. It's the reason he refused to let the Prince of Wales, or any other member of the royal family, attend the Sybilla/Gustav Adolf nuptials depite being closely related to both families. [Prince Arthur of Connaught and Lady Patricia Ramsey did attend but it seems in a private manner, as uncle and aunt of the groom, rather than as representatives of the British royal family.] I don't think that there were deep ill-feelings between the cousins though since Charles did visit the King at Sandringham in the 1930s and, as I mentioned, attended his funeral despite not being a reigning duke anymore. Also, Time reported that CE had been re-instated as a Knight of the Garter (after being removed during WW1 as part of the German prince purge) in 1932 only to be removed once again in 1940.

I don't feel badly for him that he died in reduced circumstances--his life really wasn't that much worse than what many went through in the post-war period, he just had farther to fall. Any painful illness I don't wish on anyone.

I have never read much of him, even in Alice's memoirs, that lends me to any positive view of him. There don't seem to be many ancedotes out there about him being a good son or father or husband or a charming person or an intellect or the like to help balance out the actions he took in his life. I'm not saying he wasn't any of these things, just that there seems to be an absence of them.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 02:38:05 PM by grandduchessella »
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basilforever

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He wasn't a victim, he was a disgrace. I can only imagine how his cousin George V despised him. It seems he ended up suffering appropriately for his crimes what with his face being eaten up by cancer, his wealth gone, and his family in disarray.
I do not think George V would despise him..he died in early 1936..long before Nazism (although evil from the first minute of inception) reached its worst depravaties.....As for anyone thinking that dying ravaged by cancer is a justified end for anyone.. that means by wishing such things one is sinking as low as the evil doers one is talking about....Charlie was not a front ranking nazi..he like millions of other Germans knew about camps..maybe even gas chambers etc..but turned a blind eye..no excuse...just a fact..
I might add...and I am NOT looking for sympathy....although far younger than Charlie was ...I have survived cancer and I would not wish on my worst enemy to go through what I went through.. basil..you are young..at yr age all seems black & white..but you will find as you get oldr many shades of grey in human nature...and do not wish anyone to  have family problems or poverty or certainly not to suffer...

My opinions on him are influenced by the fact I have been studying European history for nearly 4 years, currently specialising in German history, and I know so much about all the evil deeds of the Nazis, I can't have any sympathy for a virulent Nazi like Carl Eduard even if they were Royal and suffered appropriately. I think George V may have despised him, as CE was born a British Prince and ended up being a dedicated member of a regime that wanted to invade Britain and inflict MUCH suffering on its people. George V hated Nazis, he could see their evil before it was fully manifested.

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As for anyone thinking that dying ravaged by cancer is a justified end for anyone.. that means by wishing such things one is sinking as low as the evil doers one is talking about...

Maybe I was being a little harsh with my quote above. But I don't think it means that, no it doesn't - it just means you believe in a different form of justice - divine retribution maybe. He deserved some punishment, and as he didn't really get it from the state, he had to have it in some other way perhaps. But I'm sorry if I offended you - I agree it is wrong to wish he get cancer - or anything like that - I wasn't wishing it at all, but that's just what happened to him. You are right - most things are for me black and white - maybe that is because I am young - but I put it down to having an extremist personality,  ;)

Offline grandduchessella

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Charles Edward was the President of the Anglo-German Fellowship and frequently visited England in the 1930s. The Anglo-German Fellowship was founded in the UK in 1935 by the banker Ernest Tennant, a friend of the German Ambassador Joachim von Ribbentrop.The organisation had a pro-Nazi leaning, as well as a number of fascist members. The National Archives file on the group (covering 1935-1941), while heavily weeding, seems to show that the Fellowship's activities were largely non-political, and the organisation folded following the outbreak of War in 1939. However, the Fellowship was used by some as cover for covert activities. Both the Cambridge spies Kim Philby and Guy Burgess, on instruction from Moscow, joined the group to cover the tracks of their Communist connections. Philby was, in fact, editor of the group's newsletter for a period. Meanwhile, Hitler sent Charles Edward to Britain to lead the Fellowship, while he conducted negotiations with Edward VIII to try to engineer an Anglo-German pact. The files further reveal that the Fellowship was formed after National Socialist members of the earlier Anglo-German Club resigned en masse in protest at Jewish club members, and includes lists of members and prospective members, many from prominent business organisations. 

Charles Edward's contacts in England were further used by Hitler. After the death of George V , CE had a converstaion with Edward VIII. He later reported to Hitler that the new King believed in an alliance with Germany, even going so far as to report that EVIII wanted to talk to Hitler himself, rather than PM Baldwin. Even after the abdication, CE continued to send reports to Hitler that seemed to encourage the idea that there was a strong pro-German party in the country.

In addition to promoting Germany in England, CE became heavily involved in promoting the Nazi party and even became a Group Leader in the Brownshirts. His involvement was such to draw some notice in Time magazine in 1932: "By this abrupt move Dr. Schacht brought a sizeable section of Berlin finance into the Biggest Business phalanx lined up behind Adolf by Steel Tycoon Fritz Thyssen. Also in Berlin, actively supporting the Hitler cause last week, was a close kinsman of British King-Emperor George V, none other than Duke Karl Eduard von Saxe-Coburg-und-Gotha who recently married his daughter Princess Sibylle to the eldest son of Sweden's Crown Prince. Backed by the banker, the tycoon, the duke and by a large plurality of German voters, Leader Hitler was nevertheless unable last week to persuade President von Hindenburg to appoint him Chancellor of the Reich. "

When the Duke of Windsor visited Germany in 1937, one of his stops was to see Charles Edward. Time reported that "Der Obergruppenführer Herzog von Coburg...is the Head of the Family of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha....Therefore last week European socialites were agog to see what kind of dinner the Duke of Coburg would give in Nürnberg for the Duke & Duchess of Windsor. Would the greatest ladies of the House of Coburg and of German society be invited to meet the Duchess, and would the Head of the House treat her as having the rank of Royal Highness—a rank King George VI has not yet bestowed on his American sister-in-law. Der Obergruppenführer Herzog von Coburg steered a middle course. He gave a dinner of 18 covers. Seventeen of those at the table were men. The 18th place card read "Ihre Koenig-liche Hoheit der Herzogin von Windsor" —Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Windsor."

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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basilforever

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Terrible. >:( Couldn't he see that Hitler was using him, and also that Royalty and Nazism are fundamentally incompatible? I don't think CE was very smart.