Carl Edward (Karl Eduard) Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Duke of Albany & family

[Rebecca]

Toda meod, Tdora! Ken, lehitra'ot - bekarov!

[dmitri]

I wonder how history would have judged him if there had been no world war one? very differently I think ...

[basilforever]

Er, World War Two was when his disgraceful and evil behaviour and decisions took place.

[SSKENDER]

Er, World War Two was when his disgraceful and evil behaviour and decisions took place.

But being that World War One effected most directly the eventual occurrence of World War II, and affected the psychological well being of many people, one cannot neglect either.

Regards,

[bell_the_cat]

If there had been no  WWI , Charles Edward's descendants would still be the very respected Dukes of Albany, no doubt.

[basilforever]

Er, World War Two was when his disgraceful and evil behaviour and decisions took place.

But being that World War One effected most directly the eventual occurrence of World War II, and affected the psychological well being of many people, one cannot neglect either.

Regards,

Yes, but as for how history has judged him, it has judged him to be a very bad man, because of his actions in WW2, not WW1.

[SSKENDER]

Er, World War Two was when his disgraceful and evil behaviour and decisions took place.

But being that World War One effected most directly the eventual occurrence of World War II, and affected the psychological well being of many people, one cannot neglect either.

Regards,

Yes, but as for how history has judged him, it has judged him to be a very bad man, because of his actions in WW2, not WW1.

History has judged him from A to B, that includes including the effects on Karl Eduard from World War One that lead to his actions in WWII.

Regards!

[grandduchessella]

I think a good deal of what led him to his actions in WW2 was there prior to WW1. There were plenty of those who suffered much more than CE did in WW1 (after all, he lost no close relatives, got most of his money back, still had some power and prestige and wasn't wounded) and they didn't become virulent Nazis. I think some of this rather denigrates those who went through the post-WW1 period with much more suffering yet at worst sat back and at best fought back against the Nazi regime.

[basilforever]

Absolutely. The ''effects on Charles Edward from World War One" did not solely lead to his actions in WW2. Far from it! He didn't even suffer very much in World War One. It's sad that some people try to make excuses for this rabid Nazi!

[Duke of New Jersey]

It's sad that some people try to make excuses for this rabid Nazi!

I really doubt that anyone is making excuses for him!!!!

Anyway, I wonder what Alfred Jr. of Edinburgh would have done in this Couburg situation.  Would he have "gone back" to England during WWI or would he have stayed in Germany? 

He was in the Prussian Army and I bet that Marie Alexandrovna would have made him stay in Germany. 

-Duke of NJ

[Rudolf_II]

I've always found it peculiar how the son of Prince Leopold (by all accounts a sensitive and intelligent man) ended up as a notorious Nazi.  I presume that had Leo been around during Charlie's childhood, he wouldn't have ended up the way he did.

[basilforever]

It's sad that some people try to make excuses for this rabid Nazi!

I really doubt that anyone is making excuses for him!!!!

Anyway, I wonder what Alfred Jr. of Edinburgh would have done in this Couburg situation.  Would he have "gone back" to England during WWI or would he have stayed in Germany? 

He was in the Prussian Army and I bet that Marie Alexandrovna would have made him stay in Germany. 

-Duke of NJ

To me, saying that Carl Eduard being a virulent unrepentent Nazi and him supporting all the vilest aspects of Nazism, just because he lived through WW1, when millions of people lived through that and suffered much more than he did, is making an excuse for him, which he doesn't deserve.

I don't know what Affie jnr. would have done, in CE's place. That is a mystery.

[HerrKaiser]

I agree with duke of new jersey...no one is making excuses for CE, just discussing interesting ideas about his situation that are  judgments about what he was actually feeling since we do not have actual data on that.

[grandduchessella]

I've always found it peculiar how the son of Prince Leopold (by all accounts a sensitive and intelligent man) ended up as a notorious Nazi.  I presume that had Leo been around during Charlie's childhood, he wouldn't have ended up the way he did.

One would hope not. I was reading Charlotte Zeepvat's new book on royal governesses and it remarks how the Waldeck-Pyrmont children (to which CE's mother Helen and his aunt Queen Emma of the Netherlands belonged) had a very progressive upbringing where the children, including the daughters were brought up to be pretty liberal-minded and progressive and this is one of the reasons Leo and Helen suited each other so well. This held up well through some of the next generation with Princess Alice and Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands. On the other hand, some of the worst royal Nazis came from that next geneation of Waldeck-Pyrmonts--CE's cousin Josias was one of the worst offenders. These cousins, and the Schleswig-Holstein in-laws, seem to have formed a very unpleasant and reactionary group that stands out from other German royals of the period.

I would think that Leo, if he would've lived even to middle age, would've assumed the role of Duke. He might have made a more liberal ruler since he would've spent his formative years in his progressive circles and Helen would've been right at his side rather than being marginalized. These could've perhaps blunted some of the influence of the Berlin Court that were so harmful to both Affie Jr and Charlie.

[grandduchessella]

I agree with duke of new jersey...no one is making excuses for CE, just discussing interesting ideas about his situation that are  judgments about what he was actually feeling since we do not have actual data on that.

There is some data--his words (given in various speeches) and his actions throughout the 1930s and into his Presidency of the German Red Cross. I think Marlene mentioned once that there might be a German bio on him but I'm not sure.