Author Topic: Silly Questions  (Read 6563 times)

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Offline Ortipo

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Silly Questions
« on: October 17, 2012, 06:32:29 PM »
тяв-тяв,



What is the piece of furniture called that Anastasia's sitting upon?
I've googled "couch", "settee", even "curved chair" and have come up with zilch.  Adding "romanov" and "anastasia" to search items helps nil.

Is it on exhibition?

Are any other photos available besides the series from this setting?

тяв-тяв

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 06:40:53 PM »
тяв-тяв,



What is the piece of furniture called that Anastasia's sitting upon?
I've googled "couch", "settee", even "curved chair" and have come up with zilch.  Adding "romanov" and "anastasia" to search items helps nil.


   You might google  "curule chair"  for similiar/related examples.    Regards,   AP.

Offline Maria the Beautiful

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2012, 05:49:32 AM »
I really like that chair.  It's one antique piece I would not mind owning.

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2012, 09:08:25 AM »
I really like that chair.  It's one antique piece I would not mind owning.

  Simply as a personal comment/observation, I have no use for them.  Their chief impact seemed to be in their design, a cross between a stool/chair. We had several in our family homes, and they were tremendously uncomfortable (no backsupport, the need for abundant seat cushioning, etc.).  Despite their "masculine" historical origin, they were always regarded as a "perch" or "feminine" chair, with the wide seat to encompass the formal dresses (hence a natural positioning for photographs). Additionally one HAD to sit rather bolt-upright to be presentable. The ones that we owned ALWAYS seemed to be placed in front of tall, narrow windows, thus permitting unintentionally the strong sun to fade and thereby weaken the silken fabric of the seats. I have no idea what became of them. At the dissolution/sales of our properties, I chose not to take any.   AP.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 09:12:22 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline edubs31

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2012, 09:12:00 AM »
I really like that chair.  It's one antique piece I would not mind owning.

Haha, yeah I think there would be some real value to having that exact chair as well. The one that GD Anastasia sat in for one of the most famous family portraits of all time. Sure it would fetch a few $$

I checked Online Galleries for you (http://www.onlinegalleries.com/) but came up empty handed as well. The closest antique chairs of the many they have available for sale are listed below. These are window seats from the 18th and 19th century but none have the distinct curved base of the Anastasia chair...

Mahogany window seat from England circa 1825
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/regency-x-shaped-mahogany-window-seat/25959
Window seat made in England circa 1820
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/an-attractive-early-19th-century-black-and-gilt-decorated-window-seat/110599
Mahogany window seats from England circa 1770
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/pair-of-george-iii-mahogany-window-seats/71633


Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Maria the Beautiful

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2012, 10:45:44 AM »
AP - no doubt they are very uncomfortable!   But I just love the style of it.   In my mind, antiques are to be looked at, not used.  

edubs!  Thank you for your search.   I think I like the first  one (the single mahogany window seat) even better than the "Romanov" one in the picture.   That's a real beauty.     My birthday is Dec. 6, so if anyone would like to celebrate Nicholas II's name day in  a special way, I'd gladly accept a gift of the mahogany window seat!   (I won't hold my breath waiting).  I'd have to take out a second mortgage to buy it for myself and right now retirement is higher on my list of priorities than a pretty stool.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 10:48:52 AM by Maria the Beautiful »

Offline Ortipo

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 01:05:39 PM »
тяв-тяв,

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.  I'm thinking the portrait was taken in Livadia?  I'm still coming up empty as far as that particular piece goes.  With utmost sincerety I plan on winning the lottery very soon and would very much like to own this piece of furniture...
тяв-тяв

Offline Ekaterina-Nikolaevna

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 04:25:05 PM »
тяв-тяв,



What is the piece of furniture called that Anastasia's sitting upon?
I've googled "couch", "settee", even "curved chair" and have come up with zilch.  Adding "romanov" and "anastasia" to search items helps nil.

Is it on exhibition?

Are any other photos available besides the series from this setting?



I believe its called a Divan - a large chair usually without a back or arms. I remember someone including them as part of a 'Romanov alphabet' (something about the Romanovs or in the Romanovs' lives that starts with a letter of the alphabet, so for example, Y if for Yacht and O is for OTMA). D was for Divan, followed by the picture you used above. If you google 'Divan chair' in images it comes up with a few chairs slightly similar to the one Anastasia sits on but designed more modern, made of leather and so on. The rest of the search is just beds! ???
Sorry I can't be much more help then this. I hope you manage to hunt one down! :)

See those four sisters walking there?
One reddish,two brown,one fair?
Through the courtyard they go,in a line they flow,
Their name we know:
OTMA.

Offline Ekaterina-Nikolaevna

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 05:04:50 PM »
Are any other photos available besides the series from this setting?

I forgot to answer this - a divan is used for Tatiana's solo 1914 formals, and she's also sat on it for some of OTMA's group 1914 formals.
Alexei is sat on one for his 1913 solo formals (with the book) and stood gripping onto the handles in his 1906 formals.
Maria is also sat on one reading a book for her 1908 solo formal photographs (I think it's 1908, I'm terrible with dates!).
And I swear the LP sit on one for a formal or a series of formals with baby Alexei as well.
Three different divans are used - for Alexei's 1913 and 1906 photographs and the one Anastasia sits on in the photograph you posted, the arms 'curve in', if that's how you'd describe it.

(sorry for how small it is!)
For Maria's formals and the one the LP sit on in the session with baby Alexei, the arms 'curve out'.

Both are made of wood.
Tatiana sits on one in her solo formals and in OTMA's group formals of 1914. This one has a fabric seat with some sort of pattern on it and a metal frame with much shorter arms.


Finding these pictures I stumbled upon two more photos where chairs that look like divans are used:
Tatiana sitting in a divan that looks like the one from Alexei and Anastasia's photographs, 1916 OTMA formals:

Alexandra sat on a chair in the 1913 formal session with OTMA that I think is a divan:


So the IF owned more then one divan, and used them for many photograph sessions.
(I own none of the photos) :)

See those four sisters walking there?
One reddish,two brown,one fair?
Through the courtyard they go,in a line they flow,
Their name we know:
OTMA.

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Silly Questions
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 05:18:45 PM »

I believe its called a Divan - a large chair usually without a back or arms. I remember someone including them as part of a 'Romanov alphabet' (something about the Romanovs or in the Romanovs' lives that starts with a letter of the alphabet, so for example, Y if for Yacht and O is for OTMA). D was for Divan, followed by the picture you used above. If you google 'Divan chair' in images it comes up with a few chairs slightly similar to the one Anastasia sits on but designed more modern, made of leather and so on. The rest of the search is just beds! ???
Sorry I can't be much more help then this. I hope you manage to hunt one down! :)
/quote]  


    Comment:  At the risk of beating the proverbial dead horse to death, whoever concocted the so-called "Romanov alphabet" and used the single seat capacity item of furniture (on which the Granduchess Anastasia N. sits) to exemplify the name "divan" was absolutely incorrect.  In no way is it a "divan" in the historical/here-pictured sense of the word. A divan allows for the comfortable seating capacity of more than one.  
                    Today, even in Russian, the pronounciation of the word "divan" (phonetically emphasizing the long e) translates as "couch," a far cry from "chair."  I have just checked this with a native Russian speaker for correctness and he confirms "couch."   In my opinion, the "X" shaped chair pictured in the initial inquiry is a romanticized derivation of an historical "curule" chair.    Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 05:51:22 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »