Re: New Nicholas & Alexandra Video - Mini Series? Part II

[Janet Ashton]

I also enjoyed the scene of Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his squeamishness and/or unfamiliarity with the blood sport of wild game hunting. I think that would characterise him well, except that to that extent I doubt he would have partaken of the hunt at all.

He certainly did hunt, I'm afraid, folks! Even Eagar's book refers to his showing his daughter the dead animals with pleasure - and I have a lot of pics of him out in India with the guns, going after tigers and so on - it was one of the reasons he went there (as well as to see history and be poetically inspired) and he expressed no distaste at it.

But again, I think these are compelling scenes, as  those with sensitive and suffering children usually are. See Dickens.

The scenes here are well done, but I'll admit to being with Oscar Wilde on Dickens's suffering children!

[blessOTMA]

o my lord they seemingly all hunted...hunting was so huge with this class that this time , that I think someone who did not hunt,  would be looked down much  more than a fellow who fancied the stable boys

[TimM]

that is the main reason they had those lodges in Poland (none which exist anymore, the Nazis destroyed them during World War II).

[Rodney_G.]

Hmmmm. 

I also enjoyed the scene of Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and his squeamishness and/or unfamiliarity with the blood sport of wild game hunting. I think that would characterise him well, except that to that extent I doubt he would have partaken of the hunt at all.

He certainly did hunt, I'm afraid, folks! Even Eagar's book refers to his showing his daughter the dead animals with pleasure - and I have a lot of pics of him out in India with the guns, going after tigers and so on - it was one of the reasons he went there (as well as to see history and be poetically inspired) and he expressed no distaste at it.

But again, I think these are compelling scenes, as  those with sensitive and suffering children usually are. See Dickens.

The scenes here are well done, but I'll admit to being with Oscar Wilde on Dickens's suffering children!

I have no reason to doubt M. Eagar in this regard  so I stand corrected about Ernst Ludwig's attitude to hunting. I imagined his enjoying hunting and killing wild animals as contrary to his nature , which I viewed as fairly sensitive. I still think of him that way from what I know of him overall.

[edubs31]

We enter the Russo-Japanese War. Below is the first couple of what will be multiple scenes wrapped around the birth of Alexei. James Pratt gave me an excellent jumping off point with a couple of very impressive scenes he put together discussing some of the lead in to the war. I'll be adding to this shortly. For now...


February, 1904 – Tsarskoe Selo

It’s still February of 1904 and the war with Japan has already begun. Nicholas is shown discussing the situation with Ministers Sergei Witte, Vyacheslav Plehve and Minister of War Aleksey Kuropatkin…

Nicholas: So there we have it. The first great war of the twentieth century has begun…by all means gentleman I plan on it being the first great victory for Russia in the twentieth century as well.
Kuropatkin: Yes sire. It’s obvious to most everyone that the Japanese cannot compete with our numbers or fire power. Still I believe it necessary to defeat them through a war of attrition.
Nicholas: Can we not simply crush them before they get organized? They must be punished for this vicious attack on our fleet at Port Arthur.
Kuropatkin: The Japanese do no want this war but that doesn’t mean they’re ill prepared to fight it your majesty. There are ways to defeat them without the unnecessary loss of life of our troops. We begin slowly. Show our teeth and hope that it’s sufficient to bring about a swift end to the hostilities. Meanwhile we’ll continue sending troops and supplies down the Trans-Siberian Railroad and have them prepared to mount a full on arsenal if necessary.
Witte: For all this talk about unnecessary loss of human life I think it’s worth mentioning sire that the Japanese minister Kurino practically begged for an audience with you…I’m left to wonder if this whole thing could have been avoided or if perhaps certain members of the government wanted this war to happen all along.
Nicholas: I value every life Witte. The sacrifices of our fighting men will be honored. But the Japanese had plenty of opportunities for diplomacy…and let’s not forget that it was they whole ultimately declared war on us.
Plehve: Yes your majesty and with due respect I must disagree both with my colleague here (motioning toward Witte) and those in your government who disagree with you taking Russia into battle. I for one welcome the idea of a small victorious war. It will go a long way in reinvigorating national unity and quell the rebellions here at home.
Witte: Your majesty when we spoke a month ago you told me of a conversation between yourself and the Kaiser. You wrote to him that you were still in good hopes about a calm and peaceful understanding between us and the Japanese.
Nicholas: Ah yes, and you know what the Kaiser did with that letter before responding to me so kindly? Apparently he was plenty irritated (Nicholas gets up from his chair to walk about the room)…yes I understand he told his Chancellor that I was acting unmanly and indecisive. That I was doing myself a great deal of harm and my behavior was compromising the integrity of all great sovereigns.
Witte: The Kaiser is not a stable individual sire. My reason for mentioning your letter was merely to remind you that a short while ago you were seeking a diplomatic solution to our problems with Japan, and now you seek a military one.
Kuropatkin: Your majesty and Minister Witte if I may…it seems as though the die has already been cast. It’s the responsibility now of all of us to stand united in our efforts for a resounding victory. We will bring great glory to the Tsar and to Russia.
Nicholas: Yes, thank you Kuropatkin. Whatever one may think about my cousin the Kaiser he supports our efforts against the Japanese. Once more Nicholas Nikolaevich has assisted in helping to bring Montenegro on board to fight with along side of us…now, let’s begin to discuss our strategy.

The scene cuts away…

[edubs31]

We are next shown a montage of scenes from the unfolding war over the next several months. Japanese Army Commander Kuroki Itei is shown strategizing and then launching a successful battle across the Yalu River into Russian occupied Manchuria. The ensuing battle ends in bitter defeat for the Russian army. We see explosions and soldiers being shot and killed by the dozens as the Japanese army continues to move forward and gain ground. We are also shown sunken ships such as the Petropavlovsk and Pobeda and a depiction of bitter naval losses at sea. In one instance the highly regarded Admiral Stepan Makarov is shown shouting out desperate orders to men who begin to abandon ship. An explosion blows him across the deck and lands him unconscious as we see him plummeting with his sunken ship to its watery grave. Newspaper headlines in St. Petersburg and Moscow discuss the disappointment and shock over such defeats.

We cut quickly to a nameless ADC giving Nicholas an update on the war while with his mother, the Dowager Empress, in his study…

ADC (entering the room): Your majesties I have good news to report from the war.
Nicholas: Show me!
ADC: It seems our mine laying is beginning to pay off. Two Japanese battleships ships; the Yashima and Hatsuse have been sunk.
Nicholas (reading the report): Look mother it appears we were able to lure them in. Splendid news indeed!
Marie Feoderovna: Well it’s about time there is something good to report. This war has been far more costly than it could be possibly be worth.
Nicholas: It has been difficult so far but I can see the tide is beginning to turn.
Marie Feoderovna: We shouldn’t get carried away over one victory.  
Nicholas (motioning towards his ADC): Thank you Vladimir.
ADC (bowing and leaving the room): Your majesties.
Nicholas (turning his attention back to his mother): Mother is it necessary for you to talk to me in such a way in front of outsiders?
Marie Feoderovna (pausing): Yes I suppose I should apologies to you Nicky…I didn’t mean to embarrass you…but thus far this war has been an embarrassment for Russia. You’ve ignored your advisors and the wishes of your people.
Nicholas: There is little my advisors can agree on lately…and the people desire their country to be strong. It is up to me to decide how best to ensure that Russia remains proud and powerful.
Marie Feoderovna: And you believe such a war makes us proud and powerful in the eyes of the people and the world?
Nicholas: Too many people look at the specifics and fail to see the big picture. They let their emotions run high and low on the victories and defeats of individual battles.
Marie Feoderovna: So you are looking at the big picture for us all…is that it Nicky?
Nicholas: Father has been gone for nearly a decade now and I’m a man in his mid-thirties. Sunny and I have given birth to four healthy daughters and God willing she is pregnant right now with our son. I’m a Tsar. I always must think in broad terms.
Marie Feoderovna (smiling): Just then you reminded me of your father.
Nicholas (smiling and nodding in return): Let us take tea now mother and change the subject. I believe Alix is waiting up for us.
Marie Feoderovna: Very well Nicky. You know where I stand on the war, but I’m glad to see you taking charge.

Nicholas takes his mother by the hand and leads her out of the room. The scene cuts away…

[TimM]

Excellent scenes, particularly the start, when Nicholas is so sure Russia would win.  Mind you, who would think they'd get their butts handed to them by a country less than half their size.

[JamesAPrattIII]

I have been having some computor problems.  I have also noticed a number of historical mistakes in the last couple of posts: One is Witte was fired in June 1903 so he wouldn't have been around for the Feb 1904 meeting also some of the language used is not period, also I don't think Nicholas knew at the time all the snid comments made about him by the Kaiser in January 1904.
 Next post I don't think Maria Fed was in Russia during most of the R-J war. As for the sinklings of the 2 IJN battleships the Hatsue hit 2 mines and sank rapidly in sight of the Russians as for the Yashima the ship hit one mine but was able to steam out of sight of the Russians before she sank. The japanese were able to conceal her loss for over a year, believe it or not and the Russians reported engaging the ship in battle on a least one occation. It should also be pointed out Plehve did not want a war this is something from Witte's memoirs. I will and try and give you some info on what Kuropatkin acctually thought about the japanese.  One of the reasons why I am doing scenes in salons or of aide ect talking is to tell whats going on at the time when we really don't know what N & A are saying. One of my upcoming posts deals with the death of Admiral Marakov and the sinking of the Petropavlovsk and damaging or the Pobeda ect. If and when i get my computor problems sorted out.

[edubs31]

Hey James, nice to hear from you again and I'm sorry to hear about your technical problems. Some good points as always but allow me to question a few of your assertions...

One is Witte was fired in June 1903 so he wouldn't have been around for the Feb 1904 meeting

Even though he would eventually be sent to negotiate terms for Russia at the Treaty of Portsmouth? Also I must admit to getting a little lazy with my research but Witte is clearly shown in the film "Nicholas & Alexandra" as discussing the war with Nicholas and Nikolasha around the time of Alexei's birth (August, 1904). It's entirely possible that this scene was historically inaccurate, but if not then why was Witte missing in February of 1904 but apparently very much in the picture by August of that year and then again at the end of the war?

I don't think Nicholas knew at the time all the snid comments made about him by the Kaiser in January 1904.

You're probably right but this is an instance of where I'm comfortable taking some artistic liberties. We know the Kaiser did make those disparaging comments and I think it's important to address what would become a growing rift/distrust between the two royal cousins leading all the way up to WWI. Thoughts?

Next post I don't think Maria Fed was in Russia during most of the R-J war.

Again I'll consult the film, which might not be a terribly good idea, but in that we have a scene including Nicholas and his mother discussing the failures in the war and her desire to see Russia's withdraw. It seems as though she was home at some point during the war, when exactly I'm not sure. In the movie I think they were celebrating her birthday (November) so maybe my scene depiction of her chatting with Nicholas in February is a stretch...but do we have some concrete evidence that she was residing primarily abroad at this point?

As for the sinklings of the 2 IJN battleships the Hatsue hit 2 mines and sank rapidly in sight of the Russians as for the Yashima the ship hit one mine but was able to steam out of sight of the Russians before she sank. The japanese were able to conceal her loss for over a year, believe it or not and the Russians reported engaging the ship in battle on a least one occasion.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I'll edit the scene to include only the sinking of the Hatsue and perhaps passing mention to other successes dealing with the Russia mines. Perhaps a report saying something along the lines of, "we believe another ship may also have been severely damaged by our mines."

It should also be pointed out Plehve did not want a war this is something from Witte's memoirs.

Yet either prior to or during the conflict he was quoted as saying, "to avert of revolution we need a small victorious war." Can elaborate further on this because it certainly doesn't sound like the kind of a talk of a man who was against the war...perhaps concerned. I'll give a closer look at Witte's memoirs that I have read through several chapters of.

One of the reasons why I am doing scenes in salons or of aide ect talking is to tell whats going on at the time when we really don't know what N & A are saying. One of my upcoming posts deals with the death of Admiral Marakov and the sinking of the Petropavlovsk and damaging or the Pobeda ect. If and when i get my computor problems sorted out.

Sounds great, I look forward to it!

[JamesAPrattIII]

My computor is up again. The "The Russian Revolution" R Pipes says the usually despised Plehve did not want a war this came from Wittes memoirs. Pipes says if anyone was responsible for the R-J war it was Witte who was the driving force behind the Russian move into Manchuria in the first place.
and now back to the miniseries:
The road to the R-J war two Russian officials are discussing the far east in 1898
Official 1: How goes things in the far east?
Official 2: Fairly good, as you know the japanese defeated the Chinese in a war a few years ago. With the backing of the French and germans we forced the Japanese to pull out of Port Arthur. Then we moved in.
Official 1: know doubt the japanese were upset by this.
Official 2: yes, but they didn't have any choice and we now have a year round ice free port in the far east.
Official 1: No doubt this will be a big help for our foriegn trade and will also open up a markets in Manchuria and China for our goods.
Official 2: Yes, most definetly i understand both Witte and the Tsar are both extremely happy with this.
Back in the Palace Nicholas writes in his diary on 27 March 1898 " At last! an ice free port!" i don't know what he did next but we could have him giving Alexandra a big kiss and hug.

[JamesAPrattIII]

 pre R-J war scene two Adjutants at the TS:
Adj 1: Good news! It looks like an officer from your old regiment is going to awarded a medal.
Adj 2: Sadly it is for putting down a strike not combat. just about all the officers I know dislike doing this reguard it as deaming for soldiers.
Adj 1: I know how you feel but the tsar believes it is important to keep order in the Empire. The reasons why we have to use such a large part of the army for this are because despite some people calling this country a police state in reality we don't have that many policemen. The St petersburg police force may have somewhat fewer men that the police deptments in cities like Paris , Berlin, or London but they are so poorly trained, equiped and paid they can barly handle regular crime. While the gendarmes are better there are only between 10-15,000 for the whole Empire and for the countryside there are only something like 8000 Constables and Sergents.
Adj 2: Then there are those Pograms
Adj 1: Yes if we don't stop them those peasants will start going after the property of the landlords after they get through killing and looting the jews. this sort of lawlessness can not be tolerated!
Ady 2: of course having the soldiers shooting their own people can be difficult on occain especially when there are women and children present.
Adj 1: I believe after that incident at Yaroslav where the soldiers opened fire on a crowd and killed one and wounded several the Tsar sent his congadulations to the "Glorious Soldiers" ect ect for their "expemary devotion to duty"
Adj 2: Thenwe have some officials who believe the more brutaly they treat their own people the more respect it gives us abroad
Note: This was how army officers probaby felt back then on this subject. They probably would have used other comments about jews that I going to avoid. i have also read on this site that nicholas did personally decorate Soldiers and policemen for stopping pograms.

[edubs31]

I like it James, thanks again for contributing. I'm posting another little conversation between a couple of officials strolling down Nevsky Prospect. This takes place after the war and sheds some light on the varying opinions regarding the Treaty of Portsmouth.
 
September, 1905 - St. Petersburg
 
Official 1: So, alas, it is settled.
Official 2: Yes Im glad that the war is now behind us once and for all.
Official 1: I suppose...but I can't help but feeling a bit angry by the terms and what we ended up settling for.
Official 2: Well I certainly think Witte and Rosen did a masterful job.
Official 1: Really?
Official 2: Well of course. We were essentially defeated by the Japanese but you wouldn't have known it considering what they settle with us for. Under such circumstances I think Russia got the best deal it could have hoped for.
Official 1: Actually I think Russia was primed to win the war.
Official 2 (smirking): Oh you do?
Official 1: We needed not to make concessions, and certainly not to bring the Americans on board to broker a peace. If we could have held out just a little longer we would have been victorious. The Japanese won many battles but we would have outlasted them. They would have eventually succumb and we would have saved faced with our people and in the eyes of the world.
Official 2: The emperor wanted to fight on from what I understand. It was his advisors who convinced him otherwise.
Official 1: Yes and one of those advisors was the man he sent half way around the world carrying Russia's tail between his legs. You see my dear man, Minister Witte was a great economist and even knows his way around foreign policy. But he does not have a keen understanding of the Russia people, or their desires.
Official 2: Some might say the same about the emperor.
Official 1: I couldn't disagree with that. A few years ago Nicholas is being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, and now he gets himself into a losing war.
Official 2: Didn't you just say that you believed we were on the verge of victory?
Official 1: I did, but that required us seeing things through...not pulling out the way we did. This war might have been a bad idea from the outset but once the fighting began and continued on for many months it was not a cause to be lost.
Official 2: Minister Witte wasn't pleased with being sent to the United States to clean up Russia's mess you know?
Official 1: He's always been a bitter man. He remarried a converted Jew and was never welcomed at the court. He truly believes he is the smartest man in Russia.
Official 2: Well think what you will but he's one of the few Russians who looks good coming out of this mess with Japan.
 
The two gentleman arrive at a cafe and take their seats...
 
Official 1: Yes well it's the Americans and their President...Roosevelt I believe...it's they who made out best of all. They knew exactly what they were doing when they invited our countries across an ocean to help settle the peace. While we divide up Sakhalin between us Japan keeps Korea and America gets the Philippines.
Official 2: I think that portion of the deal was already settled.
Official 1: Yes, as I said, America knew exactly exactly what they were doing.
Official 2: I still think it's fair to say that they were mostly on our side. I wish we could have said the same about the British...things could have gone differently.
Official 1: Certainly. I think England's friendship, America's intervention, and Russia's...well...Russia's acceptance of a brokered deal instead of a military victory has evevated Japan as a world power.
Official 2: It won't be the last time we hear from them.
Official 1: No it will not!
 
The two mean who were already looking over their menus while speaking to one another are now approached by a waiter who prepares to take their orders. The scene cuts away...

[edubs31]

One other scene for now I wanted to add serves as little preamble to the assassination sequence I posted earlier. Among those targeted and killed was the aforementioned Minister Vyacheslav von Plehve. In this scene he is speaking to Julia Cantacuzene Spiransky-Grant...American born wife of Prince Michael Cantacuzene and first granddaughter of former US President Ulysses S. Grant. The two had befriended one another while living close together in St. Petersburg. As he did often Plehve meets Grant for tea during the day and keeps her company while her husband is away on duty.
 
July, 1904 - St. Petersburg
 
Grant: Well as you know my dear Minister the Prince and I will be traveling abroad over the next few months.
Plehve: Ah, yes, where will you go exactly...a visit back to America I hope?
Grant: Yes I cannot wait. The children have never been...first we will be stopping at Michael's family estates in Romania and the Ukraine before heading to London and Paris however.
Plehve: Well it sounds like a wonderful adventure. But I must admit that I am sorry you are going away...I have enjoyed coming here sometimes for a quiet hour very much, and I’m afraid I won’t see you again.
Grant (startled and confused): But I shall be back in town in the autumn, and on the contrary. I hope you will again take up this nice habit of dropping in on me often.
Plehve: If I am still alive, I will surely be among your frequent callers, but these people who think I am doing everything wrong, and who have been trying to assassinate me for some time back, are more than ever trailing me now. Probably they will get to me soon.
Grant: Good Lord...well you are Minister of the Interior with the police in your department. Why don’t you protect yourself?
Plehve: It wouldn’t look well, nor be well, for me to surround myself with police and show fear, would it? When I have things to do, I will go out like other men, whatever the consequences. I’m afraid there is only one way to perform one’s duty and take what comes. I've sworn allegiance to the Tsar knowing full well the risks.
Grant (greatly agitated): But something must be done. You shouldn't live in fear but you ought to be able to guard against danger.
Plehve (smiling): I'm grateful for your concern, and who knows. They've failed to get me on at least three other occasions. Perhaps the Lord is playing a role in protecting me.
Grant: Well I'll speak to my husband about this and I think someone should inform the Tsar...
Plehve (interrupting her and taking her hand, gently patting it, while having a chuckle): Oh my dear Princess you are truly divine and possess a heart of gold. Lets simply plan on seeing one another in the autumn, shall well?
Grant: Well...yes...that would make me happy.
Plehve (kissing her on he hand): I must take my leave now and return to my duties. I wish to leave this world by making it a safer place for the likes of you and your children.
 
We are shown the Minister entering his carriage as Grant stands on her front porch steps wishing him goodbye. A look of grave concern passes her face but Plehve seems almost joyous. He smiles and shouts "A pleasant summer to you, and thanks again!" while waving a farewell to the Princess and being driven off. The scene fades out.

[TimM]

Nitpicking time again.  The U.S. getting the Philippines had nothing to do with the Russo-Japanese War.  Rather they got them after the Spanish-American War of 1898.

[JamesAPrattIII]

Correction Maria fed was in Russia in April 1904 for Admiral Marakov's memorial service
Pre-war with Kaiser Wilhelm II writing Nicholas: "The task which has been set us by the Lords of Lords." "The great bulk of the Russian people still place their faith in their Tsar and worship his hallowed person." "The people will cheer you and fall on their knees and pray for you."
back in Germany 2 aides see the kaiser:
Aide 1: i wonder wear the All Highest is going dressed in his Grand Admirals uniform?
Aide 2: Where else but to visit a aquarium
Scene Wilhelm visits Russia tells nicholas "more speechs and more parades" ect.
Wilhelm starts laughing and Alexandra turns away
Wilhelm picks up one at a time OTMA Alexandra winces and OTMA don't like it either
Then there is the gunnery display put on by Captain Rozhestvenski which impresses everyone and gets him promoted to Admiral
I think these all occured during the 1902 visit of the kaiser to Russia
Latter we can have Wilhelm sending Nicholas the painting of Wilhelm as a knight in armor holding a crucifix with Nicholasin a Bzantine gown looking up to him in humble admiration. Then we can have a sence of Nicholas and Alexandera looking at it and not saying anything.
back in Berlin 2 aides are talking:
Aide 1: I wonder where the All Highest is going dressed as a general of the engineers
Aide2: To dine with a group of engineers what else
scene to Wilhelm: saying to an official "Nicholas is fit to live in the country and grow Tulips"
scene to Alexandra in Russia on Wilhelm: He thinks he is a superman in reality he is a clown" (I am not 100% sure she said this)