Author Topic: Ortino  (Read 10587 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline clockworkgirl21

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2667
    • View Profile
Ortino
« on: July 26, 2005, 01:49:21 AM »

Does this happen to be Tatiana's dog, Ortino? Or did Aleksey have a french bull dog, too?

Also, is he naked here? People who've seen the pic before are probably the only ones who can answer it, because I had to black it out a but so I wouldn't get yelled at in case he is naked.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/clockworkgirl21/aleksey1916.bmp
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by clockworkgirl21 »

Offline Laura Mabee

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2178
    • View Profile
    • Frozentears.Org
Re: Ortino
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 10:27:12 AM »
Yes, Alexei is naked... no big deal.. Everyone is born naked, it really shouldnt be as taboo as it is. ..just my two cents

etonexile

  • Guest
Re: Ortino
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2005, 10:50:16 AM »
At first...I thought you were asking if the dog was naked....Alexei seemed to be wearing a sailor suit....I thought Teddy was posting....after his "medicine"... ???

DanielB

  • Guest
Re: Ortino
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2005, 11:48:07 PM »
It seems the photo of Alexis with the dog was taken in Germany when the IF went to Friedberg (in 1910). The dog looks too big to be Ortino. Probably a German dog: maybe it belonged to the Hessian cousins.

As for Alexis being naked, there is another photo of Alexis standing naked on a beach being rinsed off by Derevenko. I wont post it not to offend anyone as it’s more revealing than the other one :o  but… it’s in “Royal Russia; The private albums of the Russian Imperial Family” ;) . Russians often bathed in the nude, as Grand-Duchess Olga recalled in her memoirs: on their way to their summer palace, the IF would often pass groups of fat women with their chidren, all of them naked, wading in the shallow streams around Peterhof, adding :” Our arrival would not upset them in the least. The screaming and laughing children would be silent only momentarily; their mothers would bow slightly and smile in acknowledgment to their Tsar and then they would continue enjoying their bath..” :D . She also recalled that when they rode through the park they often would see nude soldiers washing in the rivers and how, at the sudden approach of the imperial carriages, pandemonium would reign: caught by surprise, the men would scramble out of the water, not to get their clothes, but to grab their caps which they would jam on their wet heads, then, smartly standing at attention, they would salute and shout ;D . She added no one except her British nanny seemed the least offended by this sight! Even Nicholas II swam in the nude with the male members of his entourage, as photos and movies show. He certainly only did it only when no ladies were around, but the fact that the Emperior didn’t object to having his photo taken proves that Victorian puritanism hadn’t really reached Russia.

Lizameridox

  • Guest
Re: Ortino
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2005, 06:46:35 AM »
I am somehow persuaded that the Tsesarevich, also, only skinny dipped when no ladies were around, but it was a very Cossack thing to do.  There was also a film of some youngsters without bathing suits on jumping off a pier into a pond while Alexei Nikolaevich, standing by Derevenko, could only watch.  (Probably because the bottom of the pond was unknown territory and the Heir's feet could have gotten hurt against something down there.)

When little Alexei swam with his sisters, and played on the beach, he wore a proper striped bathing costume.

Offline clockworkgirl21

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2667
    • View Profile
Re: Ortino
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2005, 06:15:21 PM »
Daniel Briere, I have never seen that pic before. Perhaps you can post it, except censor it like I did in the one I posted.  ::)

DanielB

  • Guest
Re: Ortino
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2005, 11:06:53 AM »
Here’s a photo of Alexis with his Hessian cousins (taken in Friedberg). He’s holding the same dog as on the first photo.
.

Clockworkgirl21 : If I post the photo of Alexis naked on the beach, I won’t censor it. I understand there might be some minors on this site, or other people who might be offended by photos of naked children, but the photo has already been published in history books and can probably be found on the Web anyway. I view these photos as documents of historical significance that shouldn’t be tampered with. In this case, it tends to prove that the Tsarevich did indeed suffer from cryptorchidism…(or that the water was very cold ;D ). IM me if you want the photo : you may do what you want with it.

Offline clockworkgirl21

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2667
    • View Profile
Re: Ortino
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2005, 12:11:13 AM »
Mandie, I think it's a cousin.

And Daniel Briere, thanks for offering to take the time to send me the pic, but no thanks. I don't get offended at nudity, I just don't like to see it. lol

Lizameridox

  • Guest
Re: Ortino
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2005, 06:52:49 AM »
The other boy in 'that' :-[ picture of St. Alexei is his cousin, Prince Igor Konstantinovich, one of the Martyrs of Alapaevsk.  

Thank you, Mr. Briere, for being the soul of discretion and respect for the Tsesarevich.  

Offline mitia

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Ortino
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2005, 10:26:32 AM »
Yes Daniel Briere is right when he says that the picture of Alexis with his 2 Hessian cousins ( George Donatus and Louis ) was taken during the 1910 visit to Darmstadt. The dog is the same on both photos and it is indeed a brindle french bulldog ( frenchie ), and judging from the photos probably a " she ". Of course it is not Tatiana's Ortino, but looking at the way the Tsarevitch is cuddling her, I am inclined to think that this frenchie belongs to Alexis. Some of you may be surprised that this frenchie does not have the typical BAT EARS of the breed. It has to be remembered that french bulldog are a rather new breed ( 1860s ) and that they descend from small bulldogs crossed with terriers. Frenchies were first known as TOY BULLDOGS and till the early 1900s some had ROSE EARS and others BAT EARS. Moreover the puppies are not born with bat ears, to begin with the ears are just falling down, they staighten up ( or not ! ) when the puppies are about 5 or 6 weeks old.
Tatiana's Ortino had the perfect bat ears. Gugusse the fawn french bulldog that Felix Youssoupoff purchased in Paris in 1900 did not have bat ears, Gugusse had the same ears than Alexis 's frenchie. On the famous portrait of Felix painted by Seroff in 1904, Gugusse appears in the arms of Felix, Gugusse beeing represented with bat ears which in fact he never had since he had falling down ears (there is a photo of Felix and Gugusse posing for Seroff and one clearly sees that Gugusse had these toy bulldogs' ears ).
HM King Edward VII had 2 french bulldogs, a pied named Buffalo 1st and a brindle named Peter. The Greek Royal Family and the Danish Royal Family also had french bulldogs, so no surprise that Alexis and Tatiana had a french bulldog, though each of them at a different time.
PS : sorry to be so BORING, but my family has been breeding french bulldogs for about 35 years and " these little guys " are my passion !

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: Ortino
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2005, 08:30:22 PM »
The lack of bat ears was one of the first things I noticed Mitia. ;D The dog's also much too big to be a Frenchie. Too bad though, I've been very few pictures of Ortino. The one in my avatar ss the only one I've seen of him in detail.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Offline mitia

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Ortino
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2005, 09:42:01 AM »
Dear Ortino, let us say that the dog that HIH Alexis is holding in his arms ( same dog on both photos ) is an early french bulldog with rose ears or a toy bulldog. It is not THAT big compared to HIH Alexis who is a very little boy then of about 6 years.
Which photo of Ortino do you have ? The best one is probably the one where Ortino is with TIHS Tatiana and Maria sitting in the grass, in my opinion. I am absolutely sure that some other photos of GD Tatiana with Ortino were published in an old french magazine named L ILLUSTRATION in the early 1920s, I saw them a VERY long time ago. Would anyone have a copy of these photos, please ? Thanks.