Author Topic: Final Tally?  (Read 8170 times)

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Offline Ortipo

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Final Tally?
« on: May 09, 2013, 12:47:48 AM »
Am trying to figure out how many IF members were murdered by the Boleshiviks.

Michael          13 June 1918
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Nicholas II         17 July 1918
Alexandra
Olga
Tatiana
Maria
Anastasia
Alexei
------------
Ella                         18 July 1918
Ivan/John Const
Constantine Const
Igor Const
Sergie Mikh.
Vladimir Pavlovich Paley
---------------
George Mikh            30 January 1919
Nicholas Mikh
Dmitri Mikh
Paul Alex
----------------

I had heard that the total was 57 but not sure if that number included retainers.  Additions/corrections welcome please.
тяв-тяв

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 02:59:52 AM »
I think the final tally is 18, if you include Vladimir Paley, who was technically not a member of the Imperial Family. I think 57 was the number of members of the Imperial Family alive at the time of the Revolution.

How many retainers?

Just to start things off:

Michael's secretary Nicholas (or Brian) Johnson, killed with him

Four killed with Nicholas, alexandra and family

Klemeny Nagorny, Prince Vassili Dolgoruky and Count Ilya Tatischev, shot separately in Ekaterinburg

Countess Hendrikov and Mlle Schneider, accompanied the Imperial Family to Tobolsk and subsequently shot



aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 10:17:04 AM »
How many retainers?

Just to start things off:

Klemeny Nagorny, Prince Vassili Dolgoruky and Count Ilya Tatischev, shot separately in Ekaterinburg


   Also add Ivan D. Sednev (uncle of Leonid I. Sednev), executed together with K. Nagorny at Ekaterinburg.

                                                                                                                                                            Regards,  AP.

 

Offline edubs31

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 01:36:32 PM »
Going back to Tsar Nicholas I and including only those specific to the Romanov line I'm counting twenty as having been murdered, by the Bolsheviks or otherwise. Many are already on Ortipo's list, those in BOLD are not on your list as not having been assassinated in 1918/19. I also didn't include Ella or Alexandra as not being born into the Romanov family. Anyone else missing?

Tsar Alexander II (assassinated in 1881)
Sergie Alexadrovich (assasinated in 1905)
Paul Alexandrovich
Nicholas Constantinovich (disputed)
Dmitri Constantinovich
Nicholas Mikhailovich
George Mikhailovich
Sergei Mikhailovich
Tsar Nicholas II
Michael Alexandrovich
Alexei Alexeevich (killed by Soviets in 1931)
Vladimir Pavlovich Paley
Olga Nikolaevna
Tatiana Nikolaevna
Marie Nikolaevna
Anastasia Nikolaevna
Alexei Nikolaevich
John Constantinovich
Constantin Constantinovich
Igor Constantinovich


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Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2013, 06:52:09 PM »
Alexei Alexeivich? This is a new one on me. Can you tell me a bit about this,edubs, or anyone? 

If he was in fact killed by the Bolsheviks/ Communists , the total number of  Romanov victims would be nineteen. Horrific enough, but there could have been many more. Many were in Bolshevik custody , or at least reach, at some point , post November 7, 1917.
Rodney G.

Offline Duchess Hydrangea

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2013, 07:01:38 PM »
How many retainers?

Just to start things off:

Klemeny Nagorny, Prince Vassili Dolgoruky and Count Ilya Tatischev, shot separately in Ekaterinburg


   Also add Ivan D. Sednev (uncle of Leonid I. Sednev), executed together with K. Nagorny at Ekaterinburg.

                                                                                                                                                            Regards,  AP.

 

and Babara the nun as well as Feodor who died with Ella
Arthur of The Last Russian Czarhttp://www.amazon.com/Last-Russian-Czar-H-Carpathia/dp/1600431690/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1438094724&sr=8-6&keywords=the+last+russian+czar&pebp=1438094722063&perid=0HY1DJMAWA2SXA4BFAJ3

Offline edubs31

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2013, 07:10:48 PM »
Alexei Alexeivich? This is a new one on me. Can you tell me a bit about this,edubs, or anyone? 

If he was in fact killed by the Bolsheviks/ Communists , the total number of  Romanov victims would be nineteen. Horrific enough, but there could have been many more. Many were in Bolshevik custody , or at least reach, at some point , post November 7, 1917.

Aleksey Belevsky-Zhukovsky to be exact. Father of four children and the only child of Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich. Born in 1871 and killed between 1930-32 in the Caucuses by the Soviets. I find it rather mysterious that an exact date hasn't been pinned down for his death. As you can see they aren't even certain of what year he died. My guess, although Wikipedia gives no further details, is that he disappeared into one of Stalin's camps and was never heard from again.

See more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Belevsky-Zhukovsky

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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2013, 02:34:49 AM »
Going slightly off topic, the wikipedia article (obviously written by a non-native English speaker) says that Alexei B-Z was 'orderly' to his uncle, Serge Alexandrovich. 'Orderly' in British military parlance means 'batman'. Alexei was actually an ADC. To judge from the photograph, he also had a decided resemblance to Serge.

Ann

Offline edubs31

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2013, 10:57:36 AM »
Going slightly off topic, the wikipedia article (obviously written by a non-native English speaker) says that Alexei B-Z was 'orderly' to his uncle, Serge Alexandrovich. 'Orderly' in British military parlance means 'batman'. Alexei was actually an ADC. To judge from the photograph, he also had a decided resemblance to Serge.

Ann

And of course given that Wikipedia, while a valuable resource, shouldn't be taken as fact either. I also see what you mean about Alexei's striking resemblance to uncle Serge!
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Offline TimM

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2013, 12:07:01 PM »
The Bolsheviks sure had a high butcher's bill, and they were just getting started...
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Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2013, 02:19:59 PM »
Going slightly off topic, the wikipedia article (obviously written by a non-native English speaker) says that Alexei B-Z was 'orderly' to his uncle, Serge Alexandrovich. 'Orderly' in British military parlance means 'batman'. Alexei was actually an ADC. To judge from the photograph, he also had a decided resemblance to Serge.

Ann

And of course given that Wikipedia, while a valuable resource, shouldn't be taken as fact either. I also see what you mean about Alexei's striking resemblance to uncle Serge!

 This Alexei is indeed a near perfect  GD Serge Alexandrovich lookalike.
Rodney G.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2013, 09:10:05 PM »
GD Michael A had two other servants with him that were murdered at a later date.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 08:19:13 PM »
The book "The Sokolav investigation has pictures of the corpes of Ella and the all the other GDs that were killed with her . My English translation is abridged but the Russian version has more details on their deaths also with Ella nad the GDs where GD Sergei's secretary felix ramerz and a Nun from Ellas convent vararra yakovlena who died with them. the book also has pictures of the bodies of Hendikova and Schneider both women also had their skulls crushed by rifle butts. Hendrikova the book "The Last tsar and Schneider her wiki bio.

Offline JamesAPrattIII

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 07:24:07 PM »
My notes from the book "Memories of a survivor" Vladimir V. Wulfret who's wife divorced him and married GD Michael N. In 1937 he and his 3 brothers were sent to the Gulag where all of them died.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Final Tally?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 10:07:28 PM »
There is no dispute about HIH Grand Duke Nicholas Constantinovich (1850 - 1918) and his death. He was exiled to Tashkent as a young man, where he did many beneficial things for the people, including bringing in irrigation for farming in the area and building a theater. He was therefore much loved by his community in spite of being a Romanov grand duke. And, he was not murdered by the Bolsheviks, far from it.

He married Nadezhda Dreyer, a police chief's daughter, by whom he had two sons who were styled as Prince Iskander. One of these princes died in the Civil War and one escaped Russia, leaving behind his two children who were later adopted by their mother's second husband.

The Grand Duke's home was used as his residence during his lifetime. The Bolsheviks kicked Princess Iskander out of her home in the 1920's. It is now used as a museum.

He died in January 1918 of pneumonia and was buried the following month with considerable ceremony.