Plaoutine family

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It is quite funny that he is so "lost". Though, I have not seen any reference to a father that is a genealogist. Where is that? I would be most interested!

Oops, apparently it was the bride Emma Bruce née Ramsbottom's first father-in-law Sir Stewart Bruce, 1st and last Bt (according to the Peerage) who was, according to Wikipedia: "The Bruce Baronetcy, of Dublin, was created in the Baronetage of the United Kingdom on 23 December 1812 for Stewart Bruce, Genealogist of the Order of St Patrick and Gentleman Usher of Dublin Castle."

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So, this means that we still are not sure which exact family of Denisevs (or any other form of the name) that we're coming from. I am definitely going to keep working on this and hope that I can find some more info throughout the coming week --- which I will be sure to post!

I will be following with interest.
One more possible (but unlikely) variant occured to me -  inspired by Кёттериц: Денисьёв !
The only thing we can be certain of is that the name was not the regular Денисов.

It seems we are dealing with two very odd surnames. плаутин / Plautin is odd because it's quite rare to come across diphtongs in Russian. I assume it's derived from the river Плаутка / Plautka, just like Lenin from the river Lena.

[BingandNelsonFan]

I will be following with interest.
One more possible (but unlikely) variant occured to me -  inspired by Кёттериц: Денисьёв !
The only thing we can be certain of is that the name was not the regular Денисов.

It seems we are dealing with two very odd surnames. плаутин / Plautin is odd because it's quite rare to come across diphtongs in Russian. I assume it's derived from the river Плаутка / Plautka, just like Lenin from the river Lena.

Interestingly enough, I have read that the Plautins name stems from the Scottish name "Plowden". Apparently, the family came to Russia from Scotland during the time of Peter the Great. That probably accounts for the oddity and rareness of the name. I'll post more tomorrow!

Regards,
Sarah

[Превед]

It seems we are dealing with two very odd surnames. плаутин / Plautin is odd because it's quite rare to come across diphtongs in Russian. I assume it's derived from the river Плаутка / Plautka, just like Lenin from the river Lena.

Or the dialect word "плав" (plav), meaning wet (NB blaut is wet in Old Norse too!), which may have given the river its name.

[BingandNelsonFan]

I haven't had a ton of time to work on this today, but I have found something that might be a bit of a lead.

Marianne Plaoutine (nee Denissieff) married Lt. Robert Alexander Smith in a church in Cornwall in 1945. She was listed as 39 years of age. Her father was listed as Serge Denissieff (deceased), a mining engineer! From what I can see, he died in Russia in 1926.

Also, here is a link to a webpage that lists two Armfelts (Kyril Armfelt would be Marianne's brother-in-law), one of them being a Kyril:

http://genrogge.ru/isj/isj-243.htm

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Also, here is a link to a webpage that lists two Armfelts (Kyril Armfelt would be Marianne's brother-in-law), one of them being a Kyril:
http://genrogge.ru/isj/isj-243.htm

Oh, you mean that the name is not obscure Arenfelt, but the illustrious (Swedish-Finlandic-German) Baltic family Armfeldt? That will sure make your research easier!

[BingandNelsonFan]

Oh, you mean that the name is not obscure Arenfelt, but the illustrious (Swedish-Finlandic-German) Baltic family Armfeldt? That will sure make your research easier!

Apparently, yes! Does that make it easier? I have found two of their children listed on FindaGrave.com. They are both buried in the Russian Cemetery in Nice. Here are links to their pages on FindaGrave:

Baby Vera (presumably named for her grandmother, Vera Plaoutine Denissieff):
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=armfelt&GSmid=46812479&GRid=122427642&

Alexandre:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=armfelt&GSmid=46812479&GRid=122427466&

[BingandNelsonFan]

Oh, you mean that the name is not obscure Arenfelt, but the illustrious (Swedish-Finlandic-German) Baltic family Armfeldt? That will sure make your research easier!

Hey! I think that I have found something to do with Armfelt that is going to tell us more! I have found the Marriage Record for Kyril Armfelt and Helene (Elena) Denissieff. They were married in Nice, France, so the record is in French.



I am going to work on typing this into Google Translate, but I figured that I would post this here, just in case someone else who speaks French can do a better job! It looks like it is going to say that Kyril Armfelt is from Finland! I'll post again once I've tried to decipher this  thing.

[Forum Admin]

The second June 1923, 10 o'clock, Kyrill Armfelt (Count), businessman, twenty-five years old, born at Helsingfors (Finland) the 21st September 1897, eldest son of Alexander Armfelt, retired, in Helsingfors, and of Sophie Meorder, his divorced wife, without profession, in Nice

and on the part of Helene Denissieff (28 years) without profession, of Russian nationality, born at Saltino (Italy), the 28 July 1900, living in Nice, Avenue Saint Laurent, Chateau Saint Laurent; eldest daughter of Serge Denissioff, Engineer, at Petrograd (Russia) and of Vera Plaoutine, his deceased wife

on the other part;  No objections exist.  The future married couple declare they have not made a marriage contract.

Kyrill Armfelt (Count) and Helene Denissioff have declared their wish to take each other in marriage and We have pronounced in the name of the law that they are united in marriage.

In the presence of Alexander Zeverschoff, General, at Villefranche sur Mer/??  Maritime, and of Jean Matuszyuski, Colonel Commander of the Brigade, Retired, Officer of the Legion of Honor, Croix de Guerre.

etc.

[BingandNelsonFan]

You are SO sweet to translate that! I've been sitting here with Google translate, but I did not do that well at all. Thank you so much!


With regards to Kyril Armfelt . . .
I have figured out (with the help of that marriage record) that his father is Alexander Cladimirovich Armfelt (1862-1940), and that his mother is Sophie Meorder Armfelt (born about July 1867 at Tsarskoe-Selo). She appears to have moved from France to the United States in 1946.

Kyril's brother is Count Waldemar Alexander Armfelt, though there seems to be a slight discrepancy in the birthday, as he gave out 09 Jul 1895 and/or 1895.

With regards to Helene Denissieff . . .
Her father would die, I believe, in 1926 in Petrograd. Still can't find more about him.
This does prove that Sergei Denissieff was not married to the Vera Plaoutine that so many websites have listed. They list Vera Plaoutine as "Countess Vera Sergeyevna Zubov (nee Plautin) (1845-1925)". However, if Vera Plaoutine (wife of Serge Denissieff) was deceased by 1923, then she has to be another Vera!

I'll continue posting as I find stuff, and I certainly appreciate everyone's help and input!
Regards,
Sarah

[Forum Admin]

It was no problem actually. I speak and read French nearly fluently so it took just a minute or two. 

[Forum Admin]

Alexander Armfelt b. 1862 d. 1941 Mentone France

father: Mauritz (Wladimir) Wilhelm b. 1827 d. 1828
mother Alexandrine von Bilderling b. 1842 Peterhof Russia d. d1915 Petersburg

Mauritz father : Alexander Armfelt b.1794 Riga d. 1876 Petersburg
              mother: Sigrid Axelina Fredrika Oxenstierna b about 1801 d. about 1841

found this on ancestry.com for you.  sadly  on the tree I found Kyrill's information is private.

[BingandNelsonFan]

Alexander Armfelt b. 1862 d. 1941 Mentone France

father: Mauritz (Wladimir) Wilhelm b. 1827 d. 1828
mother Alexandrine von Bilderling b. 1842 Peterhof Russia d. d1915 Petersburg

Mauritz father : Alexander Armfelt b.1794 Riga d. 1876 Petersburg
              mother: Sigrid Axelina Fredrika Oxenstierna b about 1801 d. about 1841

found this on ancestry.com for you.  sadly  on the tree I found Kyrill's information is private.

Thanks very much! I appreciate you finding that! I have found Alexander Armfelt's burial listed on FindaGrave:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=armfelt&GSmid=46812479&GRid=122427624&

That matches up pretty well with all the info! Again, thanks!

Oh, and I have found a mention on the free search results on Genealogie.com (the French genealogy website) that there is a "Cyrille Armfelt". Do you think that is perhaps another spelling of his name?

[Forum Admin]

It is indeed a typical alternate spelling. I can translate the results if need be .  Also the fact that Kyrl and his brother are both (Count) is evidence the titles were minor civil service awards

[BingandNelsonFan]

It is indeed a typical alternate spelling. I can translate the results if need be .  Also the fact that Kyrl and his brother are both (Count) is evidence the titles were minor civil service awards

That is interesting about the Titles. I didn't know that! Thanks for the offer of translation, but you need a membership to view the actual records. If I do find more, though, I will post here.

I have found a little more on Elena Armfelt's sister, Marianne Denissieff.
Marianne was born on 24 Mar 1906 (presumably in Russia, though it could have been France or Italy). She was a nurse. She must not have married her first husband (and first cousin), George Plaoutine, until after 12 Dec 1932, as I found a document of her sailing from England to Jamaica (as a nurse) on that date --- and using her maiden name of Denissieff. She would be married to Plaoutine by about 1938.