Working in the lazaret

[matushka]

What? I'm so shocked carbolic acid is like that! Many thanks for the info ~ It's like the arsenic injections Olga received for her nervous breakdown and anemia. Maybe before it wasn't known that those are poisonous. Thank God nothing happened to them. Or...maybe the carbolic acid had been diluted or used in small quantities for medical purposes that time.

The danger was known. If my memory is good, Madame Bovary used arsenic to make her suicide (in Flaubert's novel, you know). It is a question of dilution, of course. Same thing with carbolic acid.
 
I like Tatiana working hard to do her war duty, to be seen as a normal medecine sister. In this she is the daughter of her mother. But in final, I am not sure this attitude was good for their image. Tatiana acted in the infirmery as a normal sister... and a normal girl. And people were sometimes shocked (attitude with Kiknadze, for example). It has be said that the insistance of Alexandra to wear sister's clothes during the war time even by some official events contributed to the desacralisation of the Imperial family when the first enthousiasism of the war vanished. Especially when the "sister of mercy" as a image lose her aura to symbolize a quite light woman, "consolation" of the soldiers in all acception. It's only an opinion, but quite interesting.
(I am so sorry my english does not allow me to explain this better! Hope this is quite understandable)

[wakas]

What I'm afraid of is that I translated it wrongly :S  But before translating it, I looked for the most recommended

online translators first and the results are Promt and Google translators (approved by some Russians who commented) and those are what I used. I hope the translations are right or close to the real meaning...

I think the meaning you gave for house doggie is right! Closest to the meaning of homebody (the first word I thought

to use as a substitute to that word... but the literal translation of what Alix said was 'house doggie').

Ok, thank you very much for your answer. If I was a little puzzled by the expression "house doggie", it  was just because I didn't know it and not because of your translation, which is great and very clear. I tried to use Google Translate to translate the rest of Valentina's diaries from Russian to French, but I gave up because it made no sense. lol! No really, the results were hilarious and (I'm sure) have nothing to do with the real meaning.

xD  You're right, Valentina gave up! Of course if you hear someone repeat the same requests to you everyday, you would just end up giving in xD  (only for good things!)

So true !

It's cute that Tatiana poured all herself to her lazaret work. She was willing to do the risks, and saw herself as equal to the other nurses. I think if they were allowed to live, she would have learned more about nursing, and proceeded to being a doctor (just saying^^)  Had that happened, who knows Tatiana would have been the Russian Grand Duchess who became a doctor and managed hospitals during WWII? ; )

Oh certainly. I can picture her doing that.

By the way, Olga continued working in the hospital later in 1916 but didn't participate in surgery work. She arranged beds, etc. Those who are reading Ms. Helen Azar's wonderful book certainly have read about it. (The diary entries were translated by Georgiy in Olga's diaries thread - just read them there ; )

When exactly did she stop surgery work to do paper work + arrange beds, etc ? Was it earlier than 1916? (According to Mrs. Vyrubova, she did it very quickly after she became a nurse.)

[wakas]

(I am so sorry my english does not allow me to explain this better! Hope this is quite understandable)

No, don't worry, your English is very understandable and your explanations are very interesting.

And people were sometimes shocked (attitude with Kiknadze, for example). It has be said that the insistance of Alexandra to wear sister's clothes during the war time even by some official events contributed to the desacralisation of the Imperial family when the first enthousiasism of the war vanished.

Really,people complained all the time : that sovereigns were unapproachable or that they were too close to the people ! So, no matter what Alix did, it was always misunderstood... if she had not done that, people would have complained "she wears luxury clothes while we have nothing !", etc...
I hope you're not shocked by what I said because I didn't mean to be rude. It's just my opinion on the general opinion about Alix during that period.

[Antonina]

I understand you, matushka. Did you read the book "Tragical erotic: imperial family's images during WWI"? It says the same about the sister of mercy image. And of course even their own patients sometimes had doubts about GD's motivation. Chebotareva's diary and Krasnov's "From the double eagle..." (wich I think is based on Chebotareva including) testifies that sometimes in lazaret were repeated some dirty rumors. And Maria and Anastasia in their lazaret once saw a newspaper with the article about Rasputin! They ran away at once...

[matushka]

yes, Antonina, I read this book. Extremely interesting in my opinion. A rare reflexion on those events and times. I think Spiridovitch speak about this also in this book about war and revolution. Of course Chebotareva.
Wakas, you are absolutely right about Alexandra. Whatever she did, she was wrong. And the problem was not, I think, what she did. But who she was. And she was a wonderful woman, but very complicated, with a total lack of this necessary charm. She was anthipatic. This is not her fault (or not too much), she simply was so, there are some people like this. Maria Fedorovna could have been a seelfish and quite vain woman, who like gossips, she had an extraordinary charm and stayed popular her entire life. Understand me well, I really respect Alexandra, but it is evident that she was not radiant.

[Antonina]

As for Maria, the most interesting evidence about her duties during the war and about relations in Little pair's hospital are wonderful memories of the nurse Sorokina, who worked at the Feodorovsky lazaret since august 1916. It reminds me Chebotareva. http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/sorokina.shtml
By the way, she writes that Maria and Anastasia were studing to work...

[matushka]

Excellent article, thank you for the link!

[Olga Maria]

Quoted from blessOTMA (Annie):Even when their shifts were over, they would return to see people.

LOL yes! Example Kiknadze ~
(excerpt from matushka's translation in Olga's crushes, etc. thread):
December 24, 1915 - ...."They succeeded in coming to us, with the secret idea to see K!"
May 3, 1916 - ...."At 12:00 they phoned, called Rita, and then of course, K. ... On the left I heard the sound of their car and saw their pretty faces. I did not understand how could they go out at that time. They had the permission to go to the cemetery. 'We had such a desire to see K.'..."

I think they weren't ever found out! I wonder what kind of excuses they told Alexandra, and think they were taking advantage of their mama's tiredness xD

Quoted from wakas (Tess):When exactly did she stop surgery work to do paper work + arrange beds, etc ? Was it earlier than 1916? (According to Mrs. Vyrubova, she did it very quickly after she became a nurse.)

Btw, the diary entries translated by Georgiy were from December 1916 : )
I don't know exactly when she did come back, but checking Valentina's diary on December 4, 1915, she was mentioned to be already doing work in the lazaret. I also checked Alexandra's letters and saw she mentioned Olga going to the hospital on December 11, so it confirms that Olga's back on her feet in December 1915. Most likely that's also the time she began doing the lighter work (arranging beds, giving medicines, checking temperatures, etc).

I contradict Anna Vyrubova. I think Olga was an all-around nurse for a year ^^ One year isn't quick. Perhaps she lost track of Olga's lazaret work because of her accident in late 1914 (or early 1915? gosh my rotten brain)

Ok, thank you very much for your answer. I tried to use Google Translate to translate the rest of Valentina's diaries from Russian to French, but I gave up because it made no sense. lol! No really, the results were hilarious and (I'm sure) have nothing to do with the real meaning.

You're very welcome!! (I blush to accept your compliment; I did nothing big~) LOL, indeed Google translate has a great sense of humor! But at the same time it gives me headache and you said the reason above xD

Quoted from matushka:The danger was known. If my memory is good, Madame Bovary used arsenic to make her suicide (in Flaubert's novel, you know). It is a question of dilution, of course. Same thing with carbolic acid.

Thank you muchies for clarifications! I haven't read that novel but I also knew Napoleon's poisoning by arsenic which is another thing that proves what you said ^^


This issue is very complicated that I don't know how to state my opinion ^^ (read this in a light tone: imagine Anastasia doing a story-telling)

I think the problem was both in Alexandra and the people then. Both did not listen to and attempt to understand each other.

Quoted from matushka :Wakas, you are absolutely right about Alexandra. Whatever she did, she was wrong. And the problem was not, I think, what she did. But who she was. And she was a wonderful woman, but very complicated, with a total lack of this necessary charm. She was anthipatic. This is not her fault (or not too much), she simply was so, there are some people like this.

I also adore Alexandra so much but I would agree to this. She was too shy to let the people know how she wanted to present herself, who she really was. She wasn't able to show she wanted to live simplier than other empresses who came before her. She just thought people would realize her good intentions later on or someday. She knew the Russians wanted an empress like MF (like what you said, matushka) but she couldn't be like her beloved in-law. She also didn't attempt to defend herself against the rumors that damaged her. She only let herself be misunderstood.

Btw, I agree with Tess when it come to your English ; ) Nothing to worry about ^o^

On the other hand, the Russians were quick to judge her and her family. The people confuse me, perfectly shown by this opinion of Tess:

Quoted from wakas:Really,people complained all the time : that sovereigns were unapproachable or that they were too close to the people ! So, no matter what Alix did, it was always misunderstood... if she had not done that, people would have complained "she wears luxury clothes while we have nothing !", etc...

Agree so much with your last sentence. They said such words to OTAA while they were transported to carriages which brought them to Ipatiev house!
I felt that the Russians then didn't know what they wanted. Alexandra presented herself simply but the people wanted to see her dressed as an empress. They did not understand that she was dressing in her gray nursing uniform for she wanted to be seen as an empress who sympathizes with her people at wartime. They didn't attempt to understand the sister of mercy of image. They did not try to appreciate her.
Instead of helping Alexandra, they criticized her and her daughters even with those unimportant and personal things as dressing and socialization. They didn't know that being in the IF's shoes was very difficult to be criticized so unjustly for those things.

Quoted from matushka:It has be said that the insistance of Alexandra to wear sister's clothes during the war time even by some official events contributed to the desacralisation of the Imperial family

xD  She was the one who hinted in her letters that the tsar was an anointed of God and thus, sacred.. but she was the one who desacralised the imperial family... Indeed, the very complicated Alexandra (which I find so similar to me).

Quoted from Antonina:
- As for Maria, the most interesting evidence about her duties during the war and about relations in Little pair's hospital are wonderful memories of the nurse Sorokina, who worked at the Feodorovsky lazaret since august 1916. It reminds me Chebotareva. http://www.rusarchives.ru/publication/sorokina.shtml
By the way, she writes that Maria and Anastasia were studing to work...
- (wich I think is based on Chebotareva including) testifies that sometimes in lazaret were repeated some dirty rumors. And Maria and Anastasia in their lazaret once saw a newspaper with the article about Rasputin! They ran away at once...

Many, many thanks for these valuable information Antonina!! I would try to translate that article : ) 

[rgt9w]

While thumbing through Catherine Merridale's book "Red Fortress", I noted that a brief mention of Empress Alexandra having a hospital within the Kremlin during World War I.  I knew that she had her medical facilities established within the Winter Palace and at Tsarskoye Selo, but had never heard that she had one in the Kremlin.  Does anyone have any further information about a hospital in the Kremlin?

[Rodney_G.]

It's barely posssible she had a medical facility in the Kremlin, that is, one established in her name, under her auspices. She definitely never visited one there.

[rgt9w]

Here is the quote from the book on page 268:

"In 1914, the empress Alexandra ordered that a hospital for officers should be created somewhere on the Kremlin hill.   The concession to mere citizens was a serious one, implying profanation of the sacred ground, but the idea was to emphasize the sacred nature of this war.  There was also something intimate, a direct personal link, in a hospital that bore the empress's name.  Fifty beds were envisaged, though a contingency was proposed 'should all of these be occupied'.  As the first casualties arrived, the empress requested that she be informed of each officer's name and the details of his wounds."

Later on page 267:

"If the empress had taken the time to read the reports of 'her' officers, she would have been alarmed at the details of shell-wounds, head injuries and amputations.  The Kremlin hospital began its life in the spirit of Marie Antoinette's toy farm in eighteenth-century Versailles, complete with snowy palace linen on the beds, but it ended in chaos and squalor. The plight of the casualties was desperate, their numbers overwhelming.  Distracted by problems at court, the empress lost interest, leaving the enterprise to Moscow's city government."

Alexandra certainly had many missteps in her role as empress, but in my opinion she was totally committed to her role as a nurse during the Great War.  The description of her losing interest in a hospital under her auspices and not bothering to read reports seems inaccurate to me, as Alexandra was concerned about the wounded soldiers as evidenced by her correspondence with Nicholas II and in her diaries.  Even in the unlikely event that she didn't read the reports, she knew first hand the trauma of the war from the injuries she helped nurse in Tsarskoye Selo. I find the quote comparing her work with Marie Antoinette's toy farm extremely condescending. I would still want to see confirmation from a second source to verify the existence of a Kremlin hospital in Alexandra's name.

[Olga Maria]

Very sorry for returning to this thread just now… Rgt9w, that’s terrific info! I think Alexandra had really established/patronized hospital/s in Moscow. Possible thing, for she was immensely worried about accommodating more wounded as the war progressed. I read all her correspondence available in the Homepage of APTM. She mentions Moscow, if I’m not mistaken. Only mentioned it sometimes, but  that may be enough to prove that she had hospital/s there.

The description of her losing interest in a hospital under her auspices and not bothering to read reports seems inaccurate to me, as Alexandra was concerned about the wounded soldiers as evidenced by her correspondence with Nicholas II and in her diaries.  Even in the unlikely event that she didn't read the reports, she knew first hand the trauma of the war from the injuries she helped nurse in Tsarskoye Selo.

Your opinion’s absolutely true. Perhaps, the author of that book was not able to read everything she has written herself, or could have read them but did not bother to write about it : /

She was almost always occupied thinking of the hospital matters and wrote in detail about those in her letters. She developed and nursed motherly attachments with her wounded, even with those who are far away, as she was concerned in giving them proper care and nourishment both physically and spiritually.
Though this does not refer to patients in Moscow, I post this to prove she was caring for the wounded. She wrote to her daughter Maria:

“Dear Maria,
Please distribute this picture of mine to all officers in the Big Palace. If these are much, return the rest to me. Then I send you bread for them (holy unleavened bread) which should be warmed up and eaten. I also send an image to our wounded officers. I don’t know how many they (the wounded men) are and who are not Orthodox. Many officers will be transferred to your hospital. I hope that you will send me a letter. God keep you. 1000 kisses from your old mama who misses you so much.”
source

Back to the Moscow hospital, I think it’s understandable why she can’t be hands on with it. She already had lots of patients to look after in Tsarskoe Selo. We know that is already too much for one person, especially a person like her who was having health problems herself. It’s more likely she had that job delegated to others, with her support, by granting the needs of the hospital staff and patients there.

[rgt9w]

Thank you for the information abut Empress Alexandra patronizing hospital's in Moscow.

[Petr]

Griff Henniger is working on an almost finished book on AF's war work.

[Превед]

Fitting soundtrack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpQlM4L3-7U