Author Topic: Behavior/Manners/Temper  (Read 51425 times)

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Offline Georgiy

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2005, 08:17:58 PM »
FOTR is an abbreviation for the book Fate of the Romanovs by Greg King and Penny Wilson.

Dashkova

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2005, 08:19:48 PM »
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Well it's all speculation. Anything is possible. Of course he didn't have an attack over every injury, but then there were times when little things could be deadly, like when his nose started to bleed during WWI and he had to return home. Plus the time in Ekaterinburg when he simply bumped his knee and was in terrible pain. I just am more hesitant to put much faith in that statement over the fact of his condition.


Ok, wait a minute.  If it's all speculation and you agree that attacks were very unpredictable, then why so hesitant, if the hesitancy is based on the "fact of his condition"?  When the condition *itself* was unpredictable and just as likely to give him trouble as not?
Isn't it really just that you don't like the aspect of tarnishing his 'saintly' reputation?

Dashkova

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2005, 08:48:58 PM »
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Oh please Dashkova. I never ever said he was a "saint." In fact, you go find where I did and post it, ok? Do it right now! If I was so afraid of tarnishing his "saintly reputation" then why did I in an earlier post provide an example of the diary entry of K.R.'s concerning his poor table manners?


"Do it right now!" Oh my!  ::)  I did not base my remark on anything you said prior to your post that I responded to.  Your *reaction* of "hesitancy" based on a condition that was documented as wildly unpredictable points to a refusal to seriously consider the words of the sources that discuss certain misbehaviors.
And when you are asked for clarification of that you have a knee-jerk reaction and *avoidance* of the question.

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't have time or interest to go read all your previous posts on the matter. Not now or ever.  Especially when it has nothing to do with the question put to you.

Offline Greg_King

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2005, 12:28:25 AM »
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I kind of question both of those statements. First of all, how could a sick, little boy like Alexei be able to hit someone hard enough to make their nose bleed and not suffer a bleeding attack himself from the force? Here he could suffer greatly from a simple bump on the knee, yet he somehow managed not to trigger an attack by a forceful punch? It seems strange. Also, I wonder where exactly he heard "bad" words in order to repeat them. Remember Olga at a young age didn't understand them and had underlined some in a schoolbook for Gillard to go over with her. If she didn't understand such language, how did Alexei?


Anastasiafan:

You don't like our book, quite clearly; in fact, you go out of your way to attempt to denigrate it whenever you can.  Even when, as has previously happened, you have accused us of not citing sources for various things, and then be shown to be wrong, you have not gone back and corrected your errors in other threads where such assertions were originally repeated.  Fine.  I don't care if you like the book or not.  But in your determination to undermine what we say, you apparently didn't read it very carefully, for if you had, you would have found that in our introduction we flatly state that we elected to focus deliberately on that which reveals the other side of the story, an examination of the opposite side of the well-known monarchist mythology surrounding the story.  Thus, your repeated assertions that the book is somehow unfair or slanted are based on your apparent failure to understand what we very clearly said at the beginning.

As to Alexei's behavior: As we say, it gradually improved over time, but even as late as 1916 Gilliard took a leave of absence because he found Alexei's behavior impossible.  There are many examples of this sort of thing to be found; does it represent a totality of evidence?  No.  But it does co-exist as evidence, and helps portray Alexei more closely as he undoubtedly was, good and bad, rather than in a two-dimensional manner.  As to Alexei being capable of hitting someone, I suggest you do some more research on this subject-there are other episodes, and one can be viewed in contemporary film footage, where Alexei smacks a young cadet squarely in the face.  Perhaps you are young, and have not studied this subject as long as have I, so I make allowances for your lack of knowledge.

Greg King

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2005, 12:59:14 AM »
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... They have class and allow people to say what they want, whether it is on this forum or elsewhere. Perhaps you could take a few lessons from them...


So let's see... "class" is the quality possessed by people who allow others to misrepresent them consistently?  For this is the actual focus of Greg's post -- your consistent and insistent misrepresentation of the content of our book.  We reserve the right to correct your errors wherever they become egregious.  You do not have the right to mislead people who have not read FOTR, however much you do not like the fact that it was written in the first place.  Sorry, but this is something that YOU will have to get over.
"Don't do anything by half. If you love someone, love them with all your soul. When you go to work, work your ass off. When you hate someone, hate them until it hurts."  -- A Piece of Good Advice

Sometimes the truth hurts. And sometimes it feels real good. -- Henry Rollins

Offline Greg_King

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2005, 02:47:28 AM »
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Secondly, when I ask about certain sources, I DID go back read the book and come back and state that there were citations for information. Go back and read it yourself. It's there. Don't acuse me of something that's not true, thank you very much...Do you see Robert Massie coming here and getting angry when someone disagrees with what he says? Suzanne Massie? Any other author? No because they aren't so afraid to have another person disagree and question them. They have class and allow people to say what they want, whether it is on this forum or elsewhere. Perhaps you could take a few lessons from them. Once again, nowhere did I say YOU were the one who may have been wrong about that statement about Alexei, I questioned the person who said it. Not you. Get over it!


AnastasiaFan, People have posted their disagreements regarding the book and most have not been addressed-there is no need, nor am I afraid, as you put it, to be questioned.  You, however, are clearly a different case.  Please refer back to the November post you made in the FOTR thread, which was a continuation from another thread, in which you declared flatly that we had not provided sources for what was said.  When confronted with contrary evidence in the FOTR thread, you admitted you were wrong, but did not go back and correct the initial exchange in the other thread, thus leaving the insinuation intact elsewhere.  After six books, I'm more thick-skinned than you think.  Insisting that FOTR was not fair, as you have done, therefore deliberately ignores what we clearly stated in the introduction, and yet you continue to do it.  THAT, AnastasiaFan, is what bothers me, not any disagreement you have regarding content.  I have not posted here for several months, and would not have done so again now had this once again become an issue.  You can examine and analyze the book all you like, but to be fair you must do so based on what we said in the introduction.  Your insulting remarks about "class" call for no comment, nor any further communication with you on the subject.

Greg King

Offline Sarai

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2005, 08:04:31 AM »
One of the nice things I have read about Alexei  (and I'm citing this from memory) was when, during the war, one of the officers was sitting alone in his room grieving over his son who had just died in service. Alexei went in the room and sat down quietly next to him, explaining that his father thought he should sit with him for a while, seeing as how he had just lost his son. Now, as I see it, that nice gesture was originally thought of by the Tsar, as Alexei said it was his father who asked him to do that, but it was nice of the boy nevertheless to agree to do that and spend his time with that gentleman.

Dashkova

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2005, 08:08:53 AM »
Oh ye gods...WHAT a piece of work!  ;D ;D ;D

And this bit..."I questioned the woman."

Naive, childish, got a board FIRMLY somewhere little so and so!!

Undisputed QUEEN of the backpedal technique!

It's too funny.

THANK YOU AnastasiaFan for giving me an enormous laugh to begin my day! All day people will be asking me, "What's so funny?" as my mirth spills over into a few rather dry seminars.
A great start to the day. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Dashkova »

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2005, 09:14:42 AM »
Interesting that such a discussion has erupted in a topic entitled "Manners and Beheviour"... :o

I think the human nature of this discussion shed more light onto Alexei's own behaviour, both good and bad. Now then...shall we all please examine our behaviour and show some manners.

thanks.
FA

rskkiya

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2005, 10:21:27 AM »
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One of the nice things I have read about Alexei  (and I'm citing this from memory) was when, during the war, one of the officers was sitting alone in his room grieving over his son who had just died in service. Alexei went in the room and sat down quietly next to him, explaining that his father thought he should sit with him for a while, seeing as how he had just lost his son. Now, as I see it, that nice gesture was originally thought of by the Tsar, as Alexei said it was his father who asked him to do that, but it was nice of the boy nevertheless to agree to do that and spend his time with that gentleman.


Good point...

Offline otmafan

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2005, 10:32:40 AM »
Somewhere I have read of a Botkin's ( ???) wife coming to the palace and speaking to Alexei and him ignoring her, because he was to speak first. Anyone hear this before?

(I don't know if it was Botkin, but his name comes to mind when I think of this story)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2005, 10:51:38 AM »
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One of the nice things I have read about Alexei  (and I'm citing this from memory) was when, during the war, one of the officers was sitting alone in his room grieving over his son who had just died in service. Alexei went in the room and sat down quietly next to him, explaining that his father thought he should sit with him for a while, seeing as how he had just lost his son. Now, as I see it, that nice gesture was originally thought of by the Tsar, as Alexei said it was his father who asked him to do that, but it was nice of the boy nevertheless to agree to do that and spend his time with that gentleman.


I am sure there are probably many examples like this, just like there are probably many examples of Alexei being a spoiled brat too. So this is why I think he was just a normal kind who was a product of his environment and who could be both cruel and kind, just like any other kid in his circumstances, or even in "normal" circumstances.  I know that when I look back on my own childhood and adolescence I am not always very proud of the way I behaved, but I only see the follies now, not back then. When you are a child you just don't see things the same way, and most children feel that the world basically revolves around them, and often act accordingly. In Alexei's case, this type of thing would be even more exaggerated, I imagine, because of his "station" in life, can you blame this kid for imagining that the world revolves around him when all these adults around him are pretty much constantly telling him it does?!  
Even when some children are more well mannered than the average, given a chance any normal kid would take advantage and act up if they can get away with it. It would be a rare kid that doesn't. IMO, children should not be judged on the same scale as adults... Not to say that their behavior should be dismissed as being ok, but it needs to be judged in a different way since they just don't think the same way as adults until their brains  are fully formed. There are adults who continue to behave as they did when they were adolescents, they are the ones who should be judged harshly since the expectations should most certainly higher in those cases.  




Offline Michelle

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2005, 12:06:31 PM »
I agree with Helen.

Offline Abby

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2005, 01:18:56 PM »
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 IMO, children should not be judged on the same scale as adults... Not to say that their behavior should be dismissed as being ok, but it needs to be judged in a different way since they just don't think the same way as adults until their brains  are fully formed.  
 




Well said, Helen!!

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: His Manners and Behaviour
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2005, 08:44:23 PM »
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Somewhere I have read of a Botkin's ( ???) wife coming to the palace and speaking to Alexei and him ignoring her, because he was to speak first.
 Wasn't Botkin's wife dead for a while?