The Non-Hetero Royals

[Greg_King]

Oh what a shame! Do you think it was because there were some "unsavory" things in it that Ella did not want known? Or else why would she do that? I can understand when they burned diaries when they thought that they would fall into some "undesirable" hands during the revolution, but this was long before the revolution!

My suspicion, and opinion only, is that she indeed did it to conceal that which she considered "unsavory" about her late husband, not that it really quelled the rumors.

Greg King

[grandduchessella]

It would make sense--Ella had had to combat so many rumors during her marriage that she wouldn't have wanted any evidence that could prove there was even a grain of truth in them. It's odd that if there hadn't been any truth to them that she would've disposed of the very items which could've dispelled them rather than leave a cloud hanging over their relationship. After all, as they say, besides the two people who really knows what goes on in a marriage? It seems that royals with the most talked-about (in a gossipy way) marriages (Bertie/Alix, Ella/Serge) destroyed letters/diaries whereas other (ie Nicky/ Alix--though she destroyed some letters and Vicky/Fritz left theirs for posterity).

[bluetoria]

Oh, Ella, Ella, how could you?  

She probably did it so that we wouldn't have these conversations now...but we still do!!  :-/ I reckon she had half an eye to history much of the time (as in her conversation with the American journalist when she mentioned that the Tsar should go down in history as the one who stopped the troops drinking too much vodka) - not in a bad way, just knowing (as she'd already seen her mother's letters published) that these things are remembered.
Poor Ella!

[bluetoria]

 Bluetoria not concentrating at Mass because she is trying to fathom out Ella's approach to her husband's sexuality.....How many 'Hail Marys' will that cost you?

I won't confess that!! (Might get away with it!)

[RichC]

Was Serge followed around by the secret police like Rasputin was?  Would they have kept records that Ella could not have got to?

I wonder how much clean-up had to be done in the aftermath of Serge's death with people being paid off to keep their mouths shut, etc.

[Martyn]

Oh, Ella, Ella, how could you?    I wonder if she herself kept a diary and if so, if she destroyed it when she entered the convent? I never wonder about these things for prurient reasons but the history lost, argh. KR's diaries, while sometimes you feel like you're intruding on a man's private thoughts, gives so much insight to his character and an understanding of not only his own struggles but a bit of a view on the culture of the time.

PS I'll dig around for some of my 'Foxy Ferdy' info Martyn. Is it the nickname that gets you or the quote?

Oh the quote, every time.  Kills me....Foxy Ferdy, what a character - never suspected him.  Strange that he and Missy were daggers drawn - after all she was gay man's dream best friend......

[Martyn]

I won't confess that!! (Might get away with it!)

Cheeky!  Confess and do your penance!

[RichC]

Well, there is a recent biography of Nicholas Mikhailovich called White Crow : The Life and Times of the Grand Duke Nicholas Mikhailovich Romanov, 1859-1919

It's by Jamie H. Cockfield.  I plan to check it out of the library today and see what I can find out about "Uncle Bimbo".  I read the first few pages of this book on Amazon and it looks like interesting reading.

[helenazar]

Let us know what you find out, Rich  

[Robert_Hall]

Martyn, I have been to Bulgaria, more than once and I can attest to the fact that a viable though small gay community does exist. It is a small country so one would not expect Soho or the Castro. AND Ferdinand's reputation has well survived the years- people who do not even remember or even KNEW the monarchy sure know all about Fredinand & his guards !!

[Mgmstl]

Wasn't George Alexandrovich, Nicholas's younger brother also supposed to be homosexual?  There was some scandal or talk about the trip to the East with George of Greece, GD George & Nicholas & one other, and that George & Georgie were homosexual.  

[brnbg aka: liljones1968]

4. IF William was gay, Ella couldn't expect Maria to live as she had done (the humiliation, gossip etc.) so she didn't know about it.

maybe.   but there are varying shades of grey, don't forget. the reason for the hasty engagement, seems to have been that Ella had recently decided what she wanted to do with the rest of her life (the convent etc), but she still had responsibilities (ie: Marie).   she didn't feel she could really begin work towards that goal, until she'd gotten Marie married.    her eyes were on a "bigger" prize, so-to-speak.

5. Maria was very prone to self-pity & I do not give full credence to all she writes (primarily because her descriptions of Ella conflict with so many other children's - Felix, Anna Vyrubova (who later had no reason to like Ella yet still praised her care for children) Marie of Edinburgh & her mother etc. etc.)

but she didn't resent those other children.    Marie & Dmitri lived under the same roof & were constant reminders of the children she'd never have.   and the huge amount of love that Serge poured onto them must have galled her to the core.    he seems to have loved children, but couldn't (or wouldn't) give her any.    she watched him dote on someone else's children.    i'd bet they (the children -- Marie & Dmitri) were the only chink in her armor.    she dealt with, and handled, most everything else with the unfluttered grace, decorum and positivity for which she was known, or would come to be known.....except for Marie & Dmitri.    her feelings betrayed her where they were concerned... whether she tried to suppress it or not, the pain & resentment she felt because of them & towards them, surfaced as icy aloofness.   and Marie bore the brunt of it.

6. If Maria wanted a convenient excuse to escape from an unhappy marriage, Ella & Serge gave her a good idea for an excuse.

i've read EDUCATION OF A PRINCESS several times, and i don't remember her alluding to her husband's sexuality.    in fact, i don't remember her ever mentioning it.    imo, she kept her counsel quite well.    i heard about Wilhelm through & from other sources.

[bluetoria]

I agree that - out of everything else in her life - Maria was the one area (person!) that Ella dealt with badly. Strange, though, that she seemed to get on well enough with Dmitri. And I can't believe that - determined as she was to 'get on with her own life' - she would have knowingly forced Maria into marriage with a man whom she knew to be gay. (Then again, she WAS very sorry later.)
It's also important to remember that at the time of Maria's engagement, Ella herself was unwell...perhaps that clouded her judgement too...and Maria does seem to whinge a lot!

About George of Greece - wasn't his Uncle (Waldemar of Denmark?) supposed to be in love with him?  

[Janet_W.]

Michael G., I have read that too, but where I cannot say. As is the case with so many posters, I've read so many memoirs, biographies and histories that at times it is difficult to place an exact quote or line!  

[Mgmstl]

Janet, I too have read so many biograhies I cannot place the actual quote or lines, however I know I have read it more than once.

Just call me Michael, the name of Michael was already taken so I added my middle initial of G.