Author Topic: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?  (Read 103491 times)

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Offline lilianna

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #225 on: July 21, 2010, 03:33:15 AM »
Maybe you've seen these pictures:


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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #226 on: July 21, 2010, 12:32:37 PM »
Please remember that during this time period, even up to JFK's autopsy and currently photographic records were made of emperors, crooks, princesses and others even in their coffins; also its good to remember the Perm (AGRBear?) and Alapayevsk imperial deaths were recorded on film. I choose to believe an Ekaterinburg record exists somewhere and there's frankly not anyone here who can say with certainty that they do or don't.

As I recall summer light even in Siberia was later than midnight in 1997 and I imagine there are indoor images with electric lights should this be the case. [i]Photography of the period has examples of many, many studio portraits and interiors of buildings and palaces. Examples can be found in just about any book on this subject. A photographic record may be a possibility, or a probability, but not an impossibility.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Susana

1. It was IMPERATIVE that no word of the murders leak out for any reason. Lenin feared that word of the death of the Imperial Family would create a pro monarchy backlash. Also, Germany had already demanded assurances that all "Princesses of the Royal German Blood" be protected, and Lenin had agreed.
Photographic evidence would easily have leaked out and provided this proof and Lenin could not risk it. Remember that the Whites took Ekaterinburg very soon after the murders.

2.  Yurovsky and the Ural Soviet were acting OUTSIDE of the orders given by Moscow. Yurovsky would not want photos floating around.  Remember they were working under the strictest of secrecy to make certain NOBODY found out about the murders. Why in the world would anyone take the time and effort to make photos when they wanted no one to know what they were doing.

3.  They made certain their actions were done during the shortened period of night in Siberia.  Truck lights were off, it was deliberately dark.  The cellar was dark, poorly lit. The technology of the time, as pointed out, required FAR more light that would have been possible. Not ONE of the first hand accounts mentions even a camera, much less taking of photos. The room was filled with smoke and is a very small room, as those who visited before the house was destroyed can attest. There was no ROOM to take photos.

4. Camera equipment in 1917 was in only two forms, large glass plates requiring a large format camera, big and bulky or the newly invented Kodak with sealed box for roll film. ONLY Kodak could process their film, and even if the Kodak outlet in Ekaterinburg was still open for business during the civil war, Yurovsky would never ever ever have "dropped off" the film for outsiders to see the resulting photos of the murder.

Believe these non-existent photos are hidden away somewhere if it makes you feel happy. Believe in the Loch Ness Monster or Space Aliens killing JFK if you like. It won't change the genuine facts that no such photos exist. There is just no way they could have been taken in the first place. No time, no room, no light, no reason, no opportunity, and technically impossible.

susana

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #227 on: August 27, 2010, 10:59:39 PM »
Dear FA,
Much of your answer is correct and factual although the secret murders were never a secret; some is your opinion only. Many of the members of this forum are well-read, and have been fortunate enough to spend time in historical Russian sites. Knowing there was camera equipment and photos taken indoors and outside opens a world of possibilities which would be historic to some. There would have been limitless opportunities for photographs given the amount of time (night, day) the executioner's spent with the bodies--none of us can say for certain there were or were not photos taken. Not even you. When you ended your response to me by giving me permission to believe in what I want ex: Loch Ness monster you lowered your reply to a level of immaturity and possibly ridicule. You sounded a little arrogant and might model yourself after Bob who is always polite and considerate.
                                                                Susana
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 11:23:00 PM by susana »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #228 on: August 28, 2010, 12:40:42 PM »
Please remember that during this time period, even up to JFK's autopsy and currently photographic records were made of emperors, crooks, princesses and others even in their coffins; also its good to remember the Perm (AGRBear?) and Alapayevsk imperial deaths were recorded on film. I choose to believe an Ekaterinburg record exists somewhere and there's frankly not anyone here who can say with certainty that they do or don't.

As I recall summer light even in Siberia was later than midnight in 1997 and I imagine there are indoor images with electric lights should this be the case. [i]Photography of the period has examples of many, many studio portraits and interiors of buildings and palaces. Examples can be found in just about any book on this subject. A photographic record may be a possibility, or a probability, but not an impossibility.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Susana

I'm not sure how AGRBear  is connected to Perm and Alapayevsk films.  I don't recall, nor would I have any reason to have, voiced that  photos were taken in the basement room when the family is said to have been murdered that fateful night of 16-17 July 1918.  Maybe, somewhere,  I may have suggested that  photos may have been taken at the burial sites or photos may have been taken of the Red Soldiers who were part of the murder and/or burial, like the ones taken of those who had murdered  the uncrown Emp. Michael.  

There was film burned in the stove in the Ipatiev House because the Whites found bites and pieces of film and it is a theory that it may have been taken from the Royal Family's camera and destroyed by Yurovsky.

There were many conversation by AGRBear about Perm and Allapayevsky and the possibility of one or more survivors which took place before the last DNA tests were established recently.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 12:42:35 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #229 on: August 28, 2010, 01:04:21 PM »
Forgot to mention that Yurovsky's occupation had been as a photographer.   I believe there were conversations about Yurovsky taking photos to show Lenin and others in Moscow that the deed was done and that there would be no mistakes of what he told them about the murder/execution was true.  However, when going over the timeline for Yurovsky during those long hours of preparation, the execution/murder, and burial,  it is doubted that he would have had time to have dealt with any photo set ups.  Part of the time he was in a truck with others, part of the time he was on horseback and had became injured when his horse fell.... on his return to Ekaterinburg and he had to report to the other Ural Soviet officials, etc. etc. etc. .  Plus, the Whites were just about entering Ekaterinburg.... Then he rushed back to Moscow...

The only thing I don't agree is the fact that Lenin, who had sent his good friend to Yurovsky to be in  charge of the Impatiev House,  hadn't given the okay on the murder/execution.  These two men didn't need anything in writing.  They were on the same page from day one.  Eliminate the ex-Tsar of Russia and the road to absolute power was cleared.  Proof is by association.  Yurovsky was in Moscow in the early part of July as were other leaders of the Ural Soviets.

AGRBear



"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #230 on: August 28, 2010, 01:50:37 PM »
correction:
...[in part]...

The only thing I don't agree is the fact that Lenin, who had sent his good friend  Yurovsky to be in  charge of the Impatiev House,  hadn't given the okay on the murder/execution.  These two men didn't need anything in writing.  They were on the same page from day one.  Eliminate the ex-Tsar of Russia and the road to absolute power was cleared.  Proof is by association.  Yurovsky was in Moscow in the early part of July as were other leaders of the Ural Soviets.

AGRBear

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #231 on: August 28, 2010, 03:01:58 PM »
I guess I was not clear about the book which I assume was fictional.

Then I added about Yurovsky, who was interested in photography.  After the execution was completed,  it wouldn't have stopped him from taking photographs to show the dead in the basement or at the mine to show Lenin the dead.

But,  maybe, he didn't or couldn't since he was missing two bodies.  

AGRBear

Just found this of mine.  Please note this was written five years ago.  I've learned a lot since then.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

susana

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #232 on: September 03, 2010, 11:47:54 PM »
Dear AGR Bear---------------------------------- :-[
Earlier in this thread when I was kindly directed to the photos of Alapaevesk I somehow got it into my head that you knew of photos from Perm also. Well I looked and looked and even used Google Earth but apparently even the burial place of GD Michael is lost to the universe. It was my mistake. Drat the luck!

Offline Andrei Beanov

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #233 on: April 26, 2014, 12:23:54 AM »
I was reading thro this old thread and thought I make some comments.

* I believe Lenin DID instruct Yurovsky ( via Belobordov & Goloshchekin a few weeks earlier) to get rid of the ImpF, but it would have been done verbally not in writing. in the 1920's Lenin was worshipped as god and no-one would say anything bad about him, so Urals Cheka took the responsibility and the Glory for the deed.

* No photos were taken of the dead bodies in Ipatiev or out in Koptyaki forest. ImpF cameras were confiscated on their arrival in Yekaturinburg, although this does not disprove that Yurovsky MAY have used the ImpF camera to take photos of the ImpF - BEFORE July 17th. Some burnt film was discovered in stove in Ipatiev house but no-one knows if the pictures on the film were taken in Ipatiev or previously at Tobolsk. There are other photos of ImpF in private collections & had by British royal family that are not publically seen , but I think these were taken at Tobolsk NOT Ipatiev.

* There is information in GARF Archives that has never been released to public ( so never seen by Radisvky , King/Wilson , or any other researchers  ) - some supposedly will become viewable after year 2018 , but I think for political reasons etc some will not become available. Even today things could be embarassing to Russian or German or even Britian govt. There are information-things that Yurovsky took with him that even Sokolov didn't see , neither have we today.

* We all discuss things on these forums and try to work out the 'finer details' after-the-fact ( I think is the correct word ? ) based on what Yurovsky said , or what somebody told Sokolov , or someone heard from someone else , so it is all speculation. I have been reading & researching for over 50 years and there are gray areas in the reports ,missing parts , and I don't think Yurovsky was totally truthful in his 3 or 4 supposed letters.......... but we will never know.


Wenzel

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Re: Last photos/film: allegedly taken by Yurovsky in the Ipatiev cellar?
« Reply #234 on: June 03, 2014, 01:49:48 AM »
No, it is almost impossible.  Lenin did not order the executions, the Ural Soviet did, there was no film crew, and frankly, such a thing would have been noticed by the residents of Ekaterinburg, not one ever mentioned such an unusual thing at that time.
It didn't happen.

Excuse me, but the assassinations were ordered by Jakob Sverdlov there is a telegram quoted by many authors, including Serge Schmemann from the New York Times and others who saw the telegram, Lenin and what was the future Politburo knew about the executions, the only one who didn't know anything was Trotsky who asked Lenin, why were executed the entire Imperial family and the answer we need to spread terror, and to destroyed them, as a way to assure the revolution, which will not have an end, everybody agreed here answered Ulyanov alias Lenin.