Author Topic: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals  (Read 242189 times)

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bonbon823

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #510 on: October 14, 2010, 07:38:29 AM »
But if Marie had accepted Carol's proposal, she would have survived her family...

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #511 on: October 14, 2010, 11:33:43 AM »
Exactly ! Actually both Olga & Tatiana were riped for marriage (their cousins Irina & Tatiana Constantinovna had already married). Either one could have married one of the Russian or Georgian Princes (like Irina & Tatiana). I agree international royal marriages are not easy to come by. So it was sad that they let that slip by (Miechen would have been happy to marry her children to royalty aboard).

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #512 on: October 18, 2010, 07:08:38 AM »
Eric

Marie of Coburg's daughters were hardly good advertisements for the benefits of early marriage! Perhaps one reason Nicholas and Alexandra did no go husband-seeking at an early stage was that they knew of the messy situations of Marie of Romania (married at 17) and Victoria Melita (married at 18).

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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #513 on: October 18, 2010, 07:52:12 PM »
Good points Ann! .... The thing with Olga,  she was the first born...and so her marriage would set the bar so to speak for the rest of OTMA.
The younger girls might have been allowed to  marry lower royals without fuss...but I think N and A wanted a  crown at least among the big pair ...when they thought about  it at all...I think the war over took OTMA and their parents before they were ready to be serious on the topic of marriage. ( Romania being but the beginning of such things ) When Alix writes to Nicholas during the war and she's wondering "who our girles will marry." ..it seems to be in her mind an unavoidable,  but still  far off event and she seems a bit sad about it ... I don't think she looked forward to losing them ready ...which was a reality of royal life.  One's married daughter usually went to another county to live. 

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Eric_Lowe

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #514 on: October 19, 2010, 05:56:44 PM »
Which brings me back to point one that Alicky did not want her daughters to marry until much later. Had they did so, Olga or Tatiana would have a chance of survival. It was pure selfishness that kept the children in isolation.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #515 on: October 20, 2010, 03:31:36 AM »
'It was pure selfishness that kept the children in isolation.'

No, Eric, it's more complicated than that.

I agree that Alexandra was selfish in wanting to keep her daughters to herself, but even if Olga and Tatiana had been allowed out into Russian society, they would not have met young men who were 'suitable' for them to marry. They might or might not have met suitable princes abroad, but there were not many of the right age and religion, and, in any event, they might not have wanted to marry them (neither Olga nor Tatiana was interested in Carol of Romania, though Olga seems to have liked Alexander of Serbia). Even so, they were both only just of marriageable age in 1914 and there were Marie of Romania and Victoria Melita as examples of the dangers of early marriages.

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #516 on: October 20, 2010, 03:42:09 AM »
I think N&A hadn’t married the Big Pair early because they knew Olga and Tatiana did not like to be parted from them.

I’ve read in Sophie Buxxhoevden’s or AV’s memoirs that Alexandra was planning for entertainments (balls, etc) for her children before the war (and those entertainments were supposed to take place later in 1914-1916) . Sadly, the war interfered, so, all plans were canceled. IMO that shows Alexandra was also concerned of exposing her daughters to society—to let them meet princes, grand dukes or other aristocratic men to whom they could set their hearts on, and to let them meet more friends of the same rank and age. She and Nicholas may have appeared utterly selfish because they kept their children isolated all through their lives…but had not the war happened, we would see N&A’s side of letting their children happy in the company of other people outside Alexander Palace’s court. We would say that they are not really selfish.
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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #517 on: October 20, 2010, 08:08:32 AM »
I agree that Alexandra was selfish in wanting to keep her daughters to herself, but even if Olga and Tatiana had been allowed out into Russian society, they would not have met young men who were 'suitable' for them to marry. They might or might not have met suitable princes abroad, but there were not many of the right age and religion, and, in any event, they might not have wanted to marry them (neither Olga nor Tatiana was interested in Carol of Romania, though Olga seems to have liked Alexander of Serbia). Even so, they were both only just of marriageable age in 1914 and there were Marie of Romania and Victoria Melita as examples of the dangers of early marriages.

I agree. In addition, Alexandra could not have foreseen the outcome of WWI and its consequences for her family.

Speaking of the war, would an imperial wedding have been possible during wartime? I don't know enough about Edwardian etiquette to decide whether such a ceremony would have been seen as frivolous, or a morale booster.
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Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #518 on: October 20, 2010, 08:42:02 AM »
'Speaking of the war, would an imperial wedding have been possible during wartime? I don't know enough about Edwardian etiquette to decide whether such a ceremony would have been seen as frivolous, or a morale booster.'

I think it would have had to have been a fairly quiet wedding. The only 'fully royal' WWI wedding I can think of was that of Joachim of Prussia, youngest son of the Kaiser, and Marie-Auguste of Anhalt on 11 March 1916. Does anyone know whether there was much celebration? I've never heard of any.

The present Queen's wedding in 1947 was a relatively austere affair because rationing was still in force - no full-dress uniforms - but managed to be a national celebration at the same time.

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #519 on: October 20, 2010, 09:25:28 AM »
Joachim of Prussia's wikipedia entry has a link to a contemporary report in the New York Times, which states that the wedding took place in Bellevue Castle in Berlin, in the presence of the Empress, the bride's parents, 'and other relatives', but not the Kaiser.

It sounds a fairly quiet affair.

Olga Alexandrovna also got married in 1916, but her marriage to Nikolai Koulikovsky was, of course morganatic, and presumably fairly quiet, though it took place in Kiev Cathedral in the presence of the Dowager Empress, Xenia, Alexander Mikhailovich and the officers of the Akhtyrsky Regiment.

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Offline irishgirl84

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #520 on: October 20, 2010, 04:46:21 PM »
As I have read about Olga. She said that she "was born in Russian, she's remain Russian"
Maybe you have read too...

Offline jehan

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #521 on: October 20, 2010, 05:43:29 PM »
As I have read about Olga. She said that she "was born in Russian, she's remain Russian"
Maybe you have read too...

That's true that she said it at 18, after rejecting Carol of Romania.  No doubt she meant it at the time.  And she never really had another opportunity to marry, (apart from Boris's proposal in 1916), mainly due to the war, which broke out months after the Romanian visit.

But Alexandra at 18 also said that she would never change her religion. No doubt she meant it at the time.  Had her circumstances been similar to her daughters (ie an intervening war and an early death), we might still be saying that she would never have married Nicholas.  

I don't think that we can take as gospel the words of an 18 year old.  It might have been a lifetime vow- or she might have fallen in love with a foreigner and gone to be with him.  We will never know, as she never had the chance.  She rejected a man she didn't like.   Would she have rejected a man she loved?   (At 18 I said I would never marry too.  I meant it at the time.  It's been 25 years and 2 lovely children ;-)  )
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #522 on: October 20, 2010, 08:23:45 PM »
In addition, Alexandra could not have foreseen the outcome of WWI and its consequences for her family.
Indeed...none of them did....nor the consequences of revolution and captivity. All that  transpired would have been inconceivable to them. It's still shocking to us in hind sight  , almost a century later. 

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #523 on: October 21, 2010, 08:00:53 AM »
As I have read about Olga. She said that she "was born in Russian, she's remain Russian"
Maybe you have read too...

That's true that she said it at 18, after rejecting Carol of Romania.  No doubt she meant it at the time.  And she never really had another opportunity to marry, (apart from Boris's proposal in 1916), mainly due to the war, which broke out months after the Romanian visit.

But Alexandra at 18 also said that she would never change her religion. No doubt she meant it at the time.  Had her circumstances been similar to her daughters (ie an intervening war and an early death), we might still be saying that she would never have married Nicholas.  

I don't think that we can take as gospel the words of an 18 year old.  It might have been a lifetime vow- or she might have fallen in love with a foreigner and gone to be with him.  We will never know, as she never had the chance.  She rejected a man she didn't like.   Would she have rejected a man she loved?   (At 18 I said I would never marry too.  I meant it at the time.  It's been 25 years and 2 lovely children ;-)  )

Excellent point. In the grand scheme of things, we know so little about the imperial children that the impulse to attach a lot of significance to the few details we do know is sometimes hard to resist. Thanks for the dose of perspective.
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matushka

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Re: Olga's official suitors, marriage prospects, and proposals
« Reply #524 on: October 21, 2010, 11:55:19 PM »
There is nothing selfish in Alexandra's attitude. She reacted and acted as a loving mother: a mother who is worried about the destinity of her daughter and a woman in ther 40's who see that time has gone and she do not have any little babies any more. Is is a normal feminine reaction. As parents of a almost 18 years old GD and a 16 years old younger girl NIcolas and Alexandra, in 1913-14 do their best: in Livadia, On and TN attended multiples socials events, balls, parties, family meetings. In 1914 NII and AF started to search a suitable fiancé. Nothing came out, but it is absolutly clear that without the war they would have carry one and found one day, the best for their daughter.
Could the GD marry during the war? I don't think so. They were not in a hurry. Olga and Tatiana were young enough to wait and they did not yet have found a fiancé. Alexandra insist on effort for the war: no new dresses, nursing... She surely would not organize a big beautiful weeding when the whole nation was involved in such a terrible war. Remember this page of Chebotareva's diary: one day of january 1917, Olga Nicholaevna was especially sad and Valentina Ivanovna asked her why and is her mood related to the visit of Carol of ROmania. Olga answered: "O no; there is no danger at war time". That 's clear enough.
At the same time, the visit of Carol proved the 2 families did not renounce to their idea. THe visit had political and military purpose, but according to Spiridovich the prince came also with personnal purpose. According to the same Spiridovitch, Carol complained to his aunt Victoria he could not see Olga in particular to speak with her. By the way, the only time when Carol could have ask for Maria's hand, if only this happened (I am not sure) was this 1917's visit.
Well, dear all, don't you think we are discussing the same old things again and again, without adding anything new?? ;)