The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures Part 1

[Almedingen]

Does anyone have any interesting information on Grand Duke Vladimir's family?  Does anyone know if they left any diaries, personal photo albums, letters, etc. behind?

Does anyone know if Grand Duke Boris' house at Tsarkoye Selo is still standing?  What type of house is it?  What is the layout?  Are there any photos of it?

Also, what happened to Boris, Andrei and Helen after the revolution?

With regard to Kyrill, does anyone know what he did that was so horrible that his wife, Ducky, couldn't forgive him?

[Louise]

Where are the Vladimirs buried, and are there any plans to bring the bodies back to Russia for burial?

What was the reaction of Boris, Andrei, and Helen to Kiril's self-appointment to Tsar in waiting?

Louise

[BobAtchison]

Boris's house is still there.  Here it is from the 1998 book, "Tsarskoe Selo, Residence of the Russian Monarch" by C. R. Lastochkin and Yu. F. Ryubeshanskii.  The house is at Moskovskoye #11.  The top picture is building number 1 and the bottom is number 2.  It was designed by an architect associated with the St. Petersburg branch of the English firm of Maples, Sherborn in 1895.  Nicholas and Alexandra were impressed by his work on Boris's palace interiors and this lead to his redecoration of the English Suite of the AP.

Bob

[Arleen_Ristau]

PS....maybe someone far more knowledgeable than I am could tell us MORE about Andrei and Mathilde Kschessinska, they married after their escape.  She really must hve been a character to "inspire" so many Romanov men from Nicky to Boris and Andrei and no one seems to know who the father of her son is....or do they???  What ever happened to the son???  I could go on and on asking questions!!
..Arleen

[Namarolf]

The son, Vladimir (nicknamed "Vova"), born in 1901, died single and childless in 1974. In exile, he was granted the title of Prince Krasinski by Grand Duke Cyril, who was supposed to be his uncle. It was uncertain if Vladimir's father was Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovich (murdered in Alapaevsk in 1918, along with his equerry, Grand Duchess Elizabeth and other relatives, and a nun) or Grand Duke Andrei. Mathilde seemed to believe Andrei was the father -but may be it was just easier that way for both her and the child after she married him. Anyway it was highly remarkable how Sergei tried to look after Mathilde's properties during the Revolution, and even stayed in Petrograd to do so, risking his life -and eventually being shot.

[jackie3]

Thanks for the photos of the house belonging to Boris!  I would also like to learn more about his life, both before and after the Revolution.

I've always wondered why Boris offered to marry GD Olga N. There was quite an age difference, he had the reputation as a playboy and she was sheltered in her upringing, I doubt he was in love with her since I also doubt he spent much time with her. Did he think N&A would look favorably on his cause? Was he talked into it by his mother? Or was he hedging his bets in case Alexis (like his great-uncle Leopold) managed to marry and have children despite his hemophilia thus ruining the (at the time likely because of the Mrs.Wulfret situation) chance of the Vladmirovitchi gaining the throne?

[Janet Whitcomb]

Was Boris proposing to marry Olga or was his mother pushing the idea?  My impression is that Boris wasn't interested in marrying anyone. He simply was having way too good a time living the dissapated life.  I understand that in his later years he had the bloated and haggard looks to show for it, too . . .  (Meow!)

[LisaDavidson]

It's likely that there are unpublished photos and diaries of the Vladimirovichi in the various Russian archives.

Boris married his mistress, a ballerina, in 1919. They lived in exile in France until his death in 1943. Andrei also married his famed ballerina mistress, also the mistress of Nicholas II and their cousin Serge. They lived with their son Vova until Andrei's death in 1956. Helen had already left Russia for her marriage to Prince Nicholas of Greece in 1902. Of all the offspring, she had the least to adjust to as she and her husband lived rather modestly in Europe. mostly France, for the rest of their lives. She died in 1957. Her grandchildren include Prince Michael of Kent, Princess Elizabeth of Yugoslavia, and the current Duke of Kent.

[grandduchessella]

After reading Camera and the Tsars about Helen of Greece's aborted engagement , I started digging around (I love reading about unsuccessful royal engagements/marriages for some strange reason.   ).
Anyway, here's what KR had to say:

24 May 1900
Iheard from Minnie about Maria Pavlovna's efforts to marry off her daughter Elena. After the failure with Max [of Baden], they are desperate to find another husband. Their choice fell on Albert of Belgium, but he did not seem particularly keen. M.P. then wrote to the Emperor, asking him to invite the King of Belgium to Peterhof for the summer, while Elena wrote to the young Empres, declaring her whole future depended on this invitation. At this point Albert of Belgium announced his engagement to a Bavarian princess, and Michen telegraphed the Emperor that there was no longer any need to invite the King.

19 June 1902
Mitia went to Krasnoe for the Ismailovsky celebrations and returned with the unexpected and joyful news of the engagement of Nicky of Greece to Elena Vladimirovna. Two years ago, when Elena caught Nicky's eye, her mother Maria Pavlovna made sure he was told not to count on Elena because, as the third son of a king, he was not a suitable match for her. Now Maria Pavlovna has had to change her mind, as her search for other suitors for her daughter has been in vain.

I wonder why this should be? It seems to me that a Romanov Grand Duchess, attractive and VERY wealthy, 1st cousin to the Tsar would make a very "marketable" candidate on the royal marriage mart.  Also, since they were considering Max of Baden and Albert I of Belgium, it couldn't be a religious consideration narrowing down eligible princes. Why was she so hard to match up?

[Joanna]

Hi grandduchessella !

I remember reading in "Alice" the book of Princess Alice mother of Mountbatten that it was very hard the first years when she arrived in Greece as Princess Elena considered her as not royal as she was a daughter of a Battenberg. There was of Elena an hauteur as she was a Grand Duchess. I beleive it was King George I of the Hellenes who talked with Alice to ignore the innuendos.

Prince Nicholas of Greece wrote a book. Has anyone read it? I wonder what he writes of his wife and of the Vladimirs.

Joanna

[grandduchessella]

I read that too in Vickers' book on Alice. I was just reading someone else's memoirs (I can't remember who, I was thumbing through a bunch recently) who recalls how intimidating but not unkind she could be, but very much the Russian Grand Duchess. Despite all this, her marriage was apparently a happy one. I read Nicholas of Greece's memoirs over 10 yrs ago, but I was looking primarily for N&A info (I was much more limited in my royal scope back then) and don't remember anything of what he said of his marriage or wife.    Now that book goes online for about $100! I did the same thing with Christopher of Greece and Marie of Battenberg memoirs. I wish I'd been more inquisitive back then but was just a teen.

[Lanie]

A friend of mine has Nicholas' memoirs, as well as Christopher's (Christopher's is HYSTERICAL).  I'll ask her about them.

[Darius]

In the Hugo Vickers book, the author also states that during the Second World War when Greece was invaded, George VI insisted that he would have any of the Greek royalk family in Britain EXCEPT Princess Nicolas, despite her being the mother of Marina, Duchess of Kent.

[Martyn]

Elena Vladimirovna had a very distinguished pedigree, having two parents who had well developed ideas about their status and position.  I am sure that her three older brothers, Kirill, Andrei and Boris gave her a pretty rough ride when she was younger which probably contributed to her perceived strong exterior.  The Vickers book implies that she was the bane of Alice Battenberg's life and she sounds, to all intents and purposes, very much her mother's daughter!  Actually Marie Pavlovna must have taken some comfort from Elena's marriage as the marriages of her sons were somewhat less than she had hoped for them.

[grandduchessella]

 Actually Marie Pavlovna must have taken some comfort from Elena's marriage as the marriages of her sons were somewhat less than she had hoped for them.

According to the Camera and the Tsars, Miechen wasn't too happy about her marriage to Nicholas (younger son of a King with no real prospects). As you say, her pedigree was fantastic and as ambitious as she was, I'm sure Miechen hoped for much better and hunted around for a few years after Max of Baden broke the engagement. This caused her daughter some embarassment if I recall correctly, but once Elena settled on Nicholas she was determined to marry him and Miechen eventually gave way (and I guess just tried to comfort herself by marrying Boris off to Olga!)