The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures Part 1

[grandduchessella]

I don't suppose that Boris' views are a matter of record; mind you I shouldn't have thought that they were even an issue as far as Miechen was concerned.  Once she had made her mind up to bring about the marriage, she probably considered it as good as done!
Robert Massie in "The last Courts Of Europe" mentions that Miechen considered herself to be a bit of a matchmaker; this surely must have been her most "creative" coupling!
As to Kirill, his claims, Maria Vladimirovna's claims, her son's claims (yawn) well as Bookworm quite correctly said in the other thread on MV, "pigs, skating, the hot place"..............need I say more?

Well, Miechen's matchmaking skills must've been in her head! She herself had thrown over a prince to snag Vladimir which seems to be her last successful match. She had the humiliating time trying to marry Helen (which I don't understand as she was pretty, rich and well-connected)--first Max of Baden broke the engagement, then she tried with Albert I of Belgium and one other well-connected royal whose name escapes me. Helen finally chose Nicholas of Greece (which Miechen had to be dragged into agreeing too as he was only the 2nd son of a not-to-wealthy nouveau King). Then she was 'thrilled'   with Kyril's choice of Victoria Melita--she only defended it because N&A opposed it and treated Kyril so badly (in her view). I'm sure it wouldn't have been her pick since Kyril was so close to the throne and VM was a divorced, non-Orthodox first cousin. Then Boris. Then Andrew basically 'shacks' up with Mathilde K (the ballerina whose name I'm not even going to try to spell without it in front of me!)--even marrying her after the Revolution and the birth of a son!

[Eurohistory]

And what evidence, may I ask, have yu to state that Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna (Sr.) was happy with Kirill's choice of Victoria Melita just to spite N&A?  I would love to see the sourcing for this statement.

regards,

Arturo Beéche

[grandduchessella]

It's a cumulation of various bits of information, but I believe it was Charlotte Zeepvat who said in either Romanov Autumn or Camera and the Tsars that they had told Kyril to keep her as a mistress if he must but not marry her. Then once N&A treated Kyril so harshly--banishing him, etc...their anger turned towards NII and esp Alexandra who they felt controlled what N did. That's what I meant, I never said 'out of spite'. It was more a parental instinct to turn on those you feel are mistreating your son.

NII to MF 5 Oct 05
[after restoring Kyril's title] 'It would be interesting to know what Aunt Miechen thinks? How she must've hated us!'

[Martyn]

Do we know why Max of Baden broke off the engagement to Elena Vladimirovna?  Is there any recorded reaction from the Vladimirs to this event?

[Eurohistory]

Do we know why Max of Baden broke off the engagement to Elena Vladimirovna?  Is there any recorded reaction from the Vladimirs to this event?

Not the exact reasons behind this...but there was always a rumor around Max's sexuality...unsubstantiated, but there.

Helen Wladimirovna would have made a marvelous match for Max, evenbetter than the one he eventually married.

Arturo Beéche

[grandduchessella]

Do we know why Max of Baden broke off the engagement to Elena Vladimirovna?  Is there any recorded reaction from the Vladimirs to this event?

In Camera and the Tsars I think it just states he changed his mind. The Vladimirs were NOT happy--it's embarrassing enough if it would happen today, but back then for a man to break off an engagement was considered very dishonorable and also would've reflected on the woman as somehow being 'not worth' the marriage (ridiculous I know). [I find it ironic though that Miechen threw over another man to try and snare Vladimir, though you can't argue that it was a much better match!]  KR recorded in 1900 that he'd heard from Minnie about Miechen's efforts to marry of Helen and how they were 'desperate' to find her another husband. Albert of Belgium  didn't seem interested. Miechen then personally wrote the Emperor asking him to invite the King of Belgium to Peterhof and Helen wrote the Empress saying her 'whole future depended' on this invitation. But Albert announced his engagement and that put an end to that.  Just a few months later KR would write that Nicholas of Greece went riding with Helen and there was mutual liking but Miechen 'rebuked' her daughter for this since Nicholas should NOT expect to marry her daughter since he was neither in line for a throne nor wealthy. KR felt that 'she and Nicky..go together perfectly. I heard that Miechen dreams of marrying her daughter to the Heir, Elena's first cousin, imaginging that this would be permitted.' In fact, it would be 2 more years before their engagement would be announced. I guess that Helen pulled a 'Beatrice' on her mother and stood her ground for the man she wanted (esp. since Miechen had made sure that Nicholas was told that he basically didn't have a chance with her daughter since he wasn't a 'suitable' match). Miechen had to change her mind under her daughter's determination to marry Nicholas (god for her!) and her search for other suitors had, KR wrote, 'been in vain'. I find this romantic as it was a true love match since Nicholas really didn't have anything to offer beyond himself and Helen was the granddaughter of the Tsar and immensely wealthy. Plus, it couldn't have been easy to withstand an onslaught by MP.

[Jim1026]

 ???Has anyone on this board visited the burial site of
Grand Duchess Marie in Contrexeville, France?  I read somewhere that she has her on burial chapel.

[Forum Admin]

I just finished reading a fun old book by the former Countess Nostitz,who was an American, who married a wealthy Russian aristocrat at the turn of the century. Her stories are essentially accurate from what I can tell. I found this fascinating passage on page 184 ("The Countess From Iowa" Putnam's, New York, 1936)

    "One night early in December 1916 H.I.H. the Duke Alexander Leuchtenberg, cousin of the Czar, dined alone with me.
    "I have been sounded by the Vladimirs [the three Grand Dukes, Cyril, Boris, and Andrew] to know whether I would lead my Cossack regiments in a planned revolt against the Government," he said. "I answered that I would take no sides in all this mess, so I resigned my command.  We are driving as hard as possilbe straight to a revolution."

Interesting? no?

[gleb]

Helena Vladimirovna on her wedding day at Tsarskoe Selo (She is in a room of the Cathrine palace)

[grandduchessella]

[grandduchessella]

from the 1903 ball

[Lisa]

[Lisa]

with Mathide Kshesinskaya and their son about 1907

1920

[Maria_Pavlovna]

Andrei as a toddler.




Andrei (far right) with his brothers Boris (left) and Kyrill, his little Sister Elena (in her mother's arms) and his parents the Grand Duke and Grand Duchess Vladimir.




Andrei (far left) with is brothers Kyrill (left) &  Boris and his sister Elena.

[Linnea]

Could only find this one (from the costume ball 1903), hope you´ll like it:

I only know a few things about him:
-was said to be the father of Marie of Romania´s daughter Marie
-fancied Princess Victoria Eugenie of Battenberg in the early 1900s
-was a known womanizer ("the terror of jealous husbands as well as of watchfull mothers")
-3rd son of Grand Duke Vladimir Nikolaievich and Duchess Marie of Mecklenburg-Schwerin
-b. 12 Nov 1877, St. Petersburg, d. 9 Nov 1943, Paris
-married Zenaida Raschewsky in Genova 1919

That´s all I could find out, surely somebody else knows more!