Writing Fantasy Comedy, Help/Feedback requested

[edubs31]

Well I see you're well versed in your classic rock...

The Tolkien-inspired Led Zep songs are a must ("Ramble On," "Battle of Evermore," "Misty Mountain Hop," possibly "Over the Hills and Far Away;") The Beatles are an obvious choice (perhaps too obvious) and "Magical Mystery Tour" would certainly fit. Perhaps "All You Need is Love" wo- and I've just realized that would be perfect for Anastasia coming to terms w/her feelings for Zoe, thank you! I imagine Anastasia being initially shocked, then amused, by a certain line in "Sympathy for the Devil", since it's no longer true. Though I'm less familiar w/them, I'm sure there'd be a place for some of Queen's early Prog/fantasy-influenced stuff ("Seven Seas of Rhye" and the like) and Pink Floyd's psychadelic cuts. The Who would be good, but aside from "Goin' Mobile" (which is similar to MMT) I'm not sure which would nessessarily fit the "epic quest as hippie road trip" feel.

Sympathy is naturally wise to include given the second verse. I like your selection of Zeppelin songs. Perhaps for the more affectionate scenes you should consider something more of the singer-songwriter variety. "Two of Us" or "I've Just Scene a Face" I imagine could work pretty well of Beatles songs in the place of "All You Need is Love".  "And I Love Her" is a classic too although it might drive the point home too strongly. Of course "Norwegian Wood" works for just about any situation. The lyrics "If I Fell" are appropriate but I do think the music creates the mood you're looking for...ditto that for "Here, There and Everywhere". For something with more of a rock foundation and yet subtle lyrics how about "I've Got a Feeling"? Option options, lol!

The Who would be good, but aside from "Goin' Mobile" (which is similar to MMT) I'm not sure which would nessessarily fit the "epic quest as hippie road trip" feel.

I guess "Magic Bus" is even more similar to MMT and a bit more playful and silly than what you're looking for. Back to the Beatles for a moment, "Tomorrow Never Knows" would seem to fit. I'm guessing by mentioning ELP you're thinking "Karn Evil 9", "Tarkus" maybe? An obvious choice certainly. "I've Seen All Good People" by Yes as well. Those songs of course being of the hit-single variety which you may want to avoid.

[RetroRaiderD42]

The "feel"/era is late-60's psychadelia, and I'd rather stick to those. If you're doing a classic rock-fuelled fantasy film and you don't have Led Zep in then why bother, so they get in ('71 is pretty close and "Ramble On" is from '69 anyway.) On reflection, the Queen ones would bee too much of a stretch, but there'll still be the scene early on in the tavern where ZJD show the GD's the "Bohemian Rhapsody video; just imagine the what that would be like for them! Early Beatles could fit, but I consider Magical Mystery Tour *the* psychadelic album from them, even more than Sgt. Peppers, so "All You Need is Love" it is; also, the point I'll be going for w/that is it's the moment Anastasia comes to terms w/who she is and her feelings for Zoe; that, indeed, love is all you need, and she doesn't care that it's Zoe she's starting to find it with. "And I Love Her," aside from being too obvious, is a more general sentiment. "Norwegian Wood" could certainly fit.

And w/the general soundtrack, I'm thinking of the rock/classical combo, rather than any prog songs in particular (again, for the most part past the era I'm going for.)

[Превед]

The idea is that Zoe being bi is mentioned early on in the quest and Anastasia initially reacts in the way you'd expect an Edwardian princess to. However, this turns out to be an Armoured Closet Gay situation coming from uncertainty of her own sexuality vs. her upringing and religious beliefs; and a short time later (well, a few days in-story) she begins to come round to accepting it. One evening her admission of that to Zoe leads to a fumbled admission of finding her "Cute, as you would call it" is reciprocated by Zoe, they briefly kiss, and things develop from there.

They reach Darkpool on the south coast, and Saruman's Tower Casino and Hotel where, as mentioned, OTM have been under the care of He Who I've Not Yet Got a Name For, who is himself gay. While staying there, a quick kiss between Zoe and Anastasia is seen by Olga, who tells the others. Now I'm thinking that Maria, given her caring nature and closeness to Anastasia, would come round to the idea soon-ish, or at the very least not be outright hostile/not-speaking to her over it, as will be the case w/Olga and Tatiana. Not long after Nicholas and the various armies arrive and the Epic Final Battle begins. During this Nicholas, Alexandra, Olga and Tatiana realize their error and accept Anastasia for who she is, the rest of the rulers also come around after intervention from Santa Claus (It Makes Sense In Context. Possibly.)

I'd say this also fits in well w/what I've been reading since, given how close the IF was, I can imagine them accepting it eventually if one of them did come out. Especially since they've just escaped almost certain death, thus putting things into perspective, and have found themselves in what ends up being a more progressive land, led by a trio of modern day teens.

I think you are missing an opportunity to write something very radical and controversial here: What if an escaping bi Anastasia had accepted / come to terms with the Soviet murder of her family because they didn't accept her orientation, or at least not any wish to live it, publically? You could imagine the imprisoned IF having savage arguments with a rebellious bi teenager who refused to accept that a dying empire with its hypocritical traditions (e.g. uncles Ernst Ludwig and Serguey) was to determine her life. Anastasia's resolve could have been based on having fallen in love, but also inspired by the liberalism of early Soviet society, soon to be crushed by the Stalinist return to petit-bourgeois conformity.

[RetroRaiderD42]

An interesting suggestion certainly, but not for this story. Remember, this is a comedy of the same style as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg; demolishing the bigots w/humour, not bitter melodrama. Additionally, from what I've been told by others over the past couple of days, the Romanovs may have been more accepting of such things than you'd expect; and it seems that Alexandra and Olga were the only two who truly got how dire their situation was, so Anastasia would hardly have "come to terms w/(their murder)" anyway. Nor would they have been aware of any change in societal attitudes from w/in their prison, where they got by on long out-of-date newspapers.

Again, it *might* work, somehere, and I'd even dare say that someone could even do it as extremely dark comedy (I don't say "never" in such situations) but certainly not me, nor does it fit w/the tone/arc of this story.

[edubs31]

An interesting suggestion certainly, but not for this story. Remember, this is a comedy of the same style as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg; demolishing the bigots w/humour, not bitter melodrama.

The rock and roll soundtrack you propose makes me think of the transitional scenes from Tarantino films. Period pieces injected with modern music. Not to mention the dark humor Quentin employs as a tool for both popcorn flick entertainment and social consciousness (Django Unchained & Inglorious Basterds come to mind).

[Превед]

An interesting suggestion certainly, but not for this story. Remember, this is a comedy of the same style as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHJbSvidohg; demolishing the bigots w/humour, not bitter melodrama.

OK, I see.

Additionally, from what I've been told by others over the past couple of days, the Romanovs may have been more accepting of such things than you'd expect;

Yes, as long as it didn't "cross the bounds of decency" and only involved prostitution and pedophilia with representatives of the lowest classes and not *gasp* an openly gay relationship between two equal adults! (Incestuous relationships in the extended family excepted, e.g. Prince Valdemar of Denmark and Prince George of Greece.)

and it seems that Alexandra and Olga were the only two who truly got how dire their situation was, so Anastasia would hardly have "come to terms w/(their murder)" anyway. Nor would they have been aware of any change in societal attitudes from w/in their prison, where they got by on long out-of-date newspapers.

Not sure why that would stop you if you have Santa Claus interfering in your story! :-)

But I meant "come to terms with it" with it after it happened. My idea was just that the total annihilation of the family together with their world and lifestyle would be an oppressed LGTB's hate dream from a dark hour come through, a teen suddenly realizing that their family will never accept them as they are and their choice to live their orientation. Although massively outnumbered by the suicides and hate murders of LGTB teens, there must surely be some examples of oppressed LGTB teens suddenly set free by their families being killed (by murder, accident or disaster).

[RetroRaiderD42]

Okay, this reply is going to be to points raised in the past two in no particular order:

First, I'll reiterate that the situation w/the Romanovs is intended to be in keeping w/what is historically accurate/reasonable speculation, right up until the point that the main characters gatecrash their murder and whisk them away to Middle-Earth; another reason (aside from those I'll be mentioning below) is that though it is possible that Anastasia may actually have been lesbian or bi in real life, no indication of it or arguments arising from it have appeared in any diaries or letters from her family members.

Additionally, Anastasia coming to accept who she is ties together w/the 60's counterculture aspect, and wouldn't work if she had already. The Fellowship travels across a Middle-Earth that resembles the real-world late-60's, w/all the liberation that entails. The songs we've discussed are supposed to be but a selection of those Zoe, Jeff, and Dave play on the road, and Anastasia turns out to be a proper rock chick (which I can totally see happening; she reportedly wasn't much a fan of the operas they'd attend.) As part of this accepting of the "new" ways, she comes to accept her sexuality and feelings for Zoe (this is a week or two into the Quest.) She then faces opposition from her family when they find out, but love wins in the end.

Now anger at her parents and siblings clinging to the old ways may well certainly come up during that last part, but not to the extent you suggest; the whole point of Nicholas' arc is he's held up as a prophesized saviour come to take a throne and rid the land of "evil," and so re-embraces his role as absolute monarch in order to save his daughters. He's still clinging to the old ways, and this would include initially being horrified by his daughter coming out. In the end, though, he realizes the folly of these attitudes as the people of the land do away w/AM's in general, and come to accept the LGBT folk.

Santa Claus ("the Christmas Wizard") originally meets the Fellowship on the road in a parody of his appearance in Narnia. He then shows up at the end, when Saruman's Tower's been breached and a slapstick-heavy battle is raging; though the Romanovs have been pretty much swayed by Zoe and Anastasia's declaration of love, the bigots are still closing in, until Santa arrives and reiterates his point of peace and goodwill to all, all year round. The bigots accept this, and the LGBT folk, and all is well.

Of Tarantino's work I've only seen Inglorious Basterds; I kinda liked it, though haven't seen it in ages.

P.S. edubs31, I tried to respond to your message yesterday, but when I hit "post" it said that "The letters you typed don't match the letters that were shown in the picture." Is there a captcha of some sort? Because I can't see one; does anybody know how to sort this, please?

[TimM]

I tried to respond to your message yesterday, but when I hit "post" it said that "The letters you typed don't match the letters that were shown in the picture." Is there a captcha of some sort? Because I can't see one; does anybody know how to sort this, please?

Odd.  That's never happened to me.

[Janet Ashton]

Many of the Slavic (and Baltic and Finnic) minorities in Eastern Europe have truly hobbit-like features:

The Slovenes, as they appear in Roth's "Radetzky March"

(To pick up this older thread, because I've just noticed it.....and though I'm not interested in hobbits, but I *am* interested in perceptions of people, literary or otherwise): -

You'll note, if you read Radetzky March and The Emperor's Tomb (and I don't know if you have or not), that Roth's "Slovene" Trotta family are actually not Slovenes at all. They are in various places described as coming from a village in the Banat (the ethnically Serbian/Romanian territory which fell into Austria-Hungary for a time), from a village which has a church and a mosque, and from the "southern borderlands". At the outbreak of war, Joseph Branco Trotta is summoned back to his regiment in Sarajevo. Roth also says they were oppressed by the Hungarians, but still loyal - though (apart from a tiny section of the northeast of modern Slovenia) most Slovenes were obviously in the Austrian side of the empire. The only Slovene village that ever had a mosque was Log pod Mangartom, a tiny alpine settlement where a mosque was built in 1916 for the needs of Bosnian soldiers stationed there to fight the Italians. It was demolished in the 1920s.

One critic pointed out that the mythical "Slovene" village of Sipelj sounds more as if it's in Bosnia itself, and Roth has used the Slovenes to represent some generic idea of south Slavdom which is pretty unlike the Slovenes of reality......I was disappointed, I'll admit, because I thought he'd be writing about the real experiences of a Slovene family in the empire.  But this always happens to them - they get lost of overlooked or bundled up with other people. The other day I watched a film called "Yellow Rolls Royce" which is set partly in the Slovene part of Yugoslavia in World War Two. It was filmed in Austria, so the bits set in Slovenia LOOK like Slovenia - until a bunch of Bosnian or even Albanian peasants come running out of the alpine cottages! :-D

I read an interesting essay the other day which spoke about how when Czechoslovakia gained independence everyone seemed at once to forget that Bohemia was the most industrially advanced part of Austria-Hungary, and someone in the UK wrote a silly novel about a place called "Herzoslovakia", an uncivilised bandit country in the Balkans formed after 1918. Of course, this upset Masaryk very much, because of the way that Czechoslavakia had suddenly been subsumed into some image based on stereotyped ideas of the far less developed Bosnia or Serbia, etc.- just because it was Slavic. And that goes for the Slovenes as well, of course. Masaryk was not greatly enamoured of King Alexander, and wrote that he hoped Serbia would be "de-Balkanized" by contact with the Croats and Slovenes - whereas it seems that in popular perception, the Croats and Slovenes were to be "Balkanized" by Serbia instead.

[Janet Ashton]

someone in the UK wrote a silly novel about a place called "Herzoslovakia", an uncivilised bandit country in the Balkans.

It was Agatha Christie, it seems. http://www.poirot.us/world.php

The country's hobby was "assassinating Kings and having revolutions". :-D

I'm guessing that the essay i read was by Vesna Drapac (historian?), or Vesna Goldsworthy (a poet and critic), who have both written a lot on image and perception of nations, notably "Constructing Yugoslavia" and "Inventing Ruritania" respectively. Very good stuff if one is interested in this kind of thing.

[TimM]

So, how is this project coming along?