Author Topic: The Lost Prince  (Read 88990 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Grace

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3126
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #90 on: December 23, 2005, 08:10:10 AM »
Quote

 They were not totally irrelevant in the movie because they were people that John remembered and perhaps, if it can be said, even obsessed over. Even though he only met them once, he seemed to remember them, especially Marie, quite vividly. He makes drawings of them and writes letters to them.


May I ask where you got this information, Ortino?

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #91 on: December 24, 2005, 08:08:46 PM »
The movie. Where else?  ::)

JaneEyre5381

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #92 on: December 25, 2005, 12:27:35 AM »
Someone made a comment about Prince John having a mental disorder, but after watching the movie several times I can say that perhaps he was a high-functioning child with autism, and a learning disability.  Despite all the prognosis that were made, Prince John was able to pass his second evaluation quite well, and was able to retain the information that his nanny taught him.  The child was in need of an alternative education plan, and Lala was the only one who took the time to do things a bit unconventionally when it came to Prince John's education.  She basically used everyday things to teach him arithmetic and such.  It worked to some extent, because the instructor took the time to familiarize herself with Prince John's schema, and did everything in her power to bring forth his abilities.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:15:38 PM by Alixz »

Offline Grace

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3126
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #93 on: December 25, 2005, 08:31:04 AM »
Quote
The movie. Where else?  ::)


The movie?  While quite a few enjoyed this film, Ortino, many historical and personal portrayal inaccuracies have been noted in the program.

Unless a film is a serious documentary, a docu-drama like this is made to be entertaining and to make lots of money for the producers so if you are taking the information found in a production of this type as gospel, you are quite mistaken.


Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #94 on: December 25, 2005, 09:40:50 PM »
Quote

The movie?  While quite a few enjoyed this film, Ortino, many historical and personal portrayal inaccuracies have been noted in the program.

Unless a film is a serious documentary a docu-drama like this is made to be entertaining and to make lots of money for the producers so if you are taking the information found in a production of this type as gospel, you are quite mistaken.



I did not take it as a serious documentary then and I have no intention of ever doing so. Do not question my ability to distinguish fact from fantasy. Perhaps if you actually read the question I answered or watched the movie again, you might understand my post. The question was about the presence of the Romanovs in the movie Grace dear, not a question of accuracy.  ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ortino »

Offline Grace

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 3126
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #95 on: December 26, 2005, 01:58:44 AM »
Quote

I did not take it as a serious documentary then and I have no intention of ever doing so. Do not question my ability to distinguish fact from fantasy. Perhaps if you actually read the question I answered or watched the movie again, you might understand my post. The question was about the presence of the Romanovs in the movie Grace dear, not a question of accuracy.  ::)

Before you unnecessarily roll your eyes for the third time, I still regard the Romanovs in this program as superfluous as do quite a few others, particularly their death scene.  If they had been a relevant influence in Prince John's life, which I seriously doubt, it was certainly not necessary to portray this, which Prince John would not have been aware of at all.  It was simply gratuitous violence.  This little boy waited over 80 years to have his story told and it could have been done, in my opinion, with enough sensitivity to leave this out of it.

I would hope that your somewhat contemptuous tone isn't inferring that I am not entitled to my opinion on this thread.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:16:57 PM by Alixz »

Offline Ortino

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Ortino
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #96 on: December 26, 2005, 08:39:27 AM »
Quote

Before you unnecessarily roll your eyes for the third time, I still regard the Romanovs in this program as superfluous as do quite a few others, particularly their death scene.  If they had been a relevant influence in John's life, which I seriously doubt, it was certainly not necessary to portray this, which John would not have been aware of at all.  It was simply gratuitous violence.  This little boy waited over 80 years to have his story told and it could have been done, in my opinion, with enough sensitivity to leave this out of it.

I would hope that your somewhat contemptuous tone isn't inferring that I am not entitled to my opinion on this thread.

 ::) ::) Satisfied? Whatever their purpose,  I enjoyed them being in there. Since they didn't take away from the importance or the sadness of Prince John's story, I see no problem with their presence. And no, I would never say that you weren't entitled to your opinion.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:17:28 PM by Alixz »

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6570
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #97 on: December 26, 2005, 08:51:31 AM »
I'm with Grace here. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the drama, but I never really understood why the Romanovs were included in it. All it seems to have done it given people cause to complain about their portrayel.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Offline lilavanderhorn

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #98 on: December 26, 2005, 09:20:18 AM »
I did not have a problem with their presence, however, the death scene was inaccurate, and I do not like the way they overemphasised Nicky's weakness in dealing with Alix.  Also, the house in Ekaterinberg was portayed as a real dump, with all of them sleeping in one room and with bunk beds, pretty ridiculous.  The least they could have done was try to show them more accurately.  It was ok for people who know nothing about the Romanovs, but for us who do, it is a sad attempt.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by lilavanderhorn »

Offline Sarushka

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6489
  • May I interest you in a grain of salt?
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #99 on: December 26, 2005, 11:19:21 AM »
Quote
 It was ok for people who know nothing about the Romanovs, but for us who do, it is a sad attempt.


I disagree -- the people who know nothing about the Romanovs are perhaps the ones who most deserve an accurate portrayal!

Janet_W.

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #100 on: December 26, 2005, 03:47:04 PM »
I don't know enough about the actual Prince John nor the history of the televised drama to know, in each scene, where historical fact leaves off and the drama begins. But my guess is that the Romanovs were incorporated not just because, yes, they did visit their Windsor cousins, but because dramatically they could be used to represent a unified but fragile family that would inspire both a sense of longing and, ultimately, sadness, for both Prince John and the viewer.

This much I know: The much-discussed episode of Alexandra and the shoes did not, in fact, occur--the man behind the drama admits this--but was used as a way of indicating that she could be difficult and cranky. If you look at Alexandra's face in that famous group photo, you will see that she was not happy to be there--not at all relaxed, as she was in so many photos taken during visits to her German relations--and I think that look of entrapment and discomfort was the scriptwriter's inspiration for the shoe episode. I also doubt, as I have expressed elsewhere, that Nicholas was quite the subserviant husband as portrayed in the drama; I find the portrayal of him and his attitudes towards Alexandra in the film of Nicholas and Alexandra much closer to what I've read in their correspondence, plus various memoirs and the like. In other words, when Nicholas found Alexandra to be a bit difficult, he generally ignored her behavior if they were in public--after all, she had ladies-in-waiting to assist her--then, if he did discuss the matter with her, did so privately. I think we need to remember that while Nicholas and Alexandra did have a great romantic relationship, theirs was also a relationship between two people who had lived together many years and were used to each others foibles and so forth. But they also were mindful of gossip and, despite Alexandra's obvious emotional issues, kept a great deal of their  behaviors supressed while amongst others.

Getting back to the televised drama, I would agree that the scenes portraying the Romanov imprisonment were generally off-kilter. What I did like was Prince John's attraction to OTMA--that seems to me an absolute possibility, as practically all of Europe, not to mention the world, was entranced by these four beautifully dressed, seemingly ethereal young girls--and I also like Prince John's fantasy sequence, in which he imagines his Romanov cousins living the happy "farm" life as he lives.

The dramatist obviously was not in tune with those of us who have made a study of the Romanovs. What he was doing was using the Romanovs dramatically to put across some of his own points about Prince John. As a dramatist I think he succeeded; as an historian I think he did not.

Offline Prince_Lieven

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6570
  • To Be Useful In All That I Do
    • View Profile
    • Edward III's Descendants
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #101 on: December 26, 2005, 06:03:54 PM »
Quote
As a dramatist I think he succeeded; as an historian I think he did not.


Brilliant Janet, I think that sums the whole thing up.  :) BTW, I LOVE Miranda Richardson as Queen Mary.
"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"
-Sherlock Holmes

"Men forget, but never forgive; women forgive, but never forget."

Alixz

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #102 on: December 26, 2005, 06:18:05 PM »
I finally got to see the drama here in the US.  I must have missed it last year.

I took umbridge at the Ekaterinburg scenes, but also at having Alexandra speaking fluent Russian and the whole family conversing in Russian to one another.

As for Nicholas, his English was supposed to be so good that he could "fool and Oxford professor".

I loved the farm scenes that Johnny imagines because we have mentioned on the forum before that if Nicholas could have retired to his fantasy farm that it would be a hoot to see Alexandra in the barnyard.

granduchessmariska

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #103 on: December 30, 2005, 06:51:52 PM »
lo
Quote
I finally got to see the drama here in the US.  I must have missed it last year.

I took umbridge at the Ekaterinburg scenes, but also at having Alexandra speaking fluent Russian and the whole family conversing in Russian to one another.

As for Nicholas, his English was supposed to be so good that he could "fool and Oxford professor".

I loved the farm scenes that Johnny imagines because we have mentioned on the forum before that if Nicholas could have retired to his fantasy farm that it would be a hoot to see Alexandra in the barnyard.



Very good point! And it was such an amazing show that it was actually the key factor in rekindling my love for the Romanovs! It's actually on video now!

Offline Lucien

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7349
  • Courtier
    • View Profile
Re: The Lost Prince
« Reply #104 on: December 30, 2005, 07:02:21 PM »
New Years Day at 05.30PM on BBC2:"The Lost Prince",part 1,part two will be on the same time on january 2nd.
Je Maintiendrai