Russia's Lost Princesses

[Ally Kumari]

The issue with "taking the documentary" was actually people on tumblr making gif images from parts of the old footage. Nobody "took the documentary" or earned any money from it illegally. As far as I know Ms. Rappaport accused the gif-makers of thefth, stating the footage used was previously unseen and new (which it was not) and it led to some nasty accusations and attacks on both sides.

[TimM]

Well, it's a good documentary.  Thank you, YouTube, for allowing me to see it.

[Romanov_Fan19]

love it

[Превед]

What I constantly find that such documentaries fail to adress is that these "lost princesses" in their day and age first and foremost were known in the West as "the daughters of the Russian despot". Russian oppression of Jews, Poles and Finns was widely known and criticized and as autocrat NII was the target for the blame. Russia's image before WW1 was very much like Russia's image today and OTMA's probably very much like Putin's daughters. As the alliances between Britain, France and Russia were established, and of course when WW1 broke out, I suspect the image of Russia and its ruling family were somewhat softened in the allied nations, but it's fascinating when you read original sources from the time to notice how Westerners often praised the charming, romantic pecularities (i.e. often rustic backwardsness) of the Russian people, they were usually quite scathing about the Emperor - usually portrayed as a ruler so hated he hardly could step outside his golden cage because of the fear of terrorist attacks - and of course this must have coloured people's perception of his family.

[rgt9w]

During the documentary, Orlando Figes provides commentary related to the public's perception of the empresses and grand duchesses nursing roles.  He describes how a consignment of nursing uniforms was obtained by prostitutes in Petrograd which they wore while working.  According to Mr. Figes, the tarnished image of "nurses" reflected badly on the empress and her daughters. Does anyone  have any other information on this matter, as I had never heard this before.

[Suzanne]

See the book  Interpreting the Russian Revolution: The Language and Symbols of 1917 (1999) by Orlando Figes and  Boris Kolonitskii. There's a chapter on perceptions of the Russian Imperial family that includes how nurses were perceived in WWI Russia.

[Превед]

During the documentary, Orlando Figes provides commentary related to the public's perception of the empresses and grand duchesses nursing roles.  He describes how a consignment of nursing uniforms was obtained by prostitutes in Petrograd which they wore while working.  According to Mr. Figes, the tarnished image of "nurses" reflected badly on the empress and her daughters. Does anyone  have any other information on this matter, as I had never heard this before.

I don't know anything about this, but my gut feeling says that it could be the Empress's enemies who appropriated nurses uniforms and handed them over to prostitutes in order to discredit her.

[edubs31]

Russia's image before WW1 was very much like Russia's image today and OTMA's probably very much like Putin's daughters.

Except for the fact that if another global war began do you really think England, France, the US, etc, would be on the side of the Russians? I wonder.

Also, I suppose the OTMA to MY (Mariya & Yekaterina) comparison is somewhat fair, but OTMA were far more believably "sheltered" in their day and age than Putin's nearly 30-year old daughters are today. Aside from the nursing, OTMA was largely removed from the unfolding events in Russia; pogroms, two wars, revolution, etc. The Putin daughters aren't public figures either, and haven't been used as a source of propaganda the way OTMA was. But in an era of mass media, internet and cell phones, no one with powerful parents can be so sheltered and naive as the Romanov Grand Duchess's were a hundred years ago.

but it's fascinating when you read original sources from the time to notice how Westerners often praised the charming, romantic pecularities (i.e. often rustic backwardsness) of the Russian people, they were usually quite scathing about the Emperor - usually portrayed as a ruler so hated he hardly could step outside his golden cage because of the fear of terrorist attacks - and of course this must have coloured people's perception of his family.

I agree with you. Although the assassination of Alexander II should perhaps have softened some of their hostile feelings towards the Tsar (or at least the basic role of Emperor if not the man himself). Alexander II was largely celebrated as the "Tsar Liberator" and progressive minded ruler who was destined to lead Russia out of its doldrums. Yet even he was assassinated. It should have been obvious to thinking people that even a "good" Tsar would be risking life and limb, and I would think that would help win them some grudging respect...Or, outsiders would have at least viewed the Russian people more negatively. A sort of "Well you killed the leader who was going to help you so maybe a reactionary like Alexander III or Nicholas II is what you truly deserve".

[Превед]

Russia's image before WW1 was very much like Russia's image today and OTMA's probably very much like Putin's daughters.

Except for the fact that if another global war began do you really think England, France, the US, etc, would be on the side of the Russians? I wonder.

Of course not, that's why the WW1 alliances were so surreal.

Also, I suppose the OTMA to MY (Mariya & Yekaterina) comparison is somewhat fair, but OTMA were far more believably "sheltered" in their day and age than Putin's nearly 30-year old daughters are today. Aside from the nursing, OTMA was largely removed from the unfolding events in Russia; pogroms, two wars, revolution, etc. The Putin daughters aren't public figures either, and haven't been used as a source of propaganda the way OTMA was. But in an era of mass media, internet and cell phones, no one with powerful parents can be so sheltered and naive as the Romanov Grand Duchess's were a hundred years ago.

True. As I've said elsewhere, I think one example of the proof of the propapaganda use of Romanov females is how popular the name Olga became in Norway in the last half of the 19th century. So not only because of Olga Nikolayevna, but also her aunt Olga Aleksandrovna.

I agree with you. Although the assassination of Alexander II should perhaps have softened some of their hostile feelings towards the Tsar (or at least the basic role of Emperor if not the man himself). Alexander II was largely celebrated as the "Tsar Liberator" and progressive minded ruler who was destined to lead Russia out of its doldrums. Yet even he was assassinated. It should have been obvious to thinking people that even a "good" Tsar would be risking life and limb, and I would think that would help win them some grudging respect...Or, outsiders would have at least viewed the Russian people more negatively. A sort of "Well you killed the leader who was going to help you so maybe a reactionary like Alexander III or Nicholas II is what you truly deserve".

My impression isn't that the general pre-WW1 public thought along the lines "served you well, you ungrateful Russians supporting terrorism". On the contrary it seems to me that the liberal public to some degree thought positively of terrorists targeting reactionary leaders. Since there was little concept of genocide or terrorism against the population at large before WW1, people thought of these nihilists as true revolutionaries, sacrificing themselves for a greater good.

I think the West's view was very influenced by the Russian suppression of the Poles. (And the Poles were the ideal victims, since they also, to a lesser degree, were suppressed by the Germans and Austrians. And Scandinavians had the same view of the Finns as the victims of the Russians.) And it's interesting to see how apparantly large parts of the Polish nobility and intelligentsia passively or actively supported terrorism against their Russian occupiers in the 19th century untill WW1.

[rgt9w]

See the book  Interpreting the Russian Revolution: The Language and Symbols of 1917 (1999) by Orlando Figes and  Boris Kolonitskii. There's a chapter on perceptions of the Russian Imperial family that includes how nurses were perceived in WWI Russia.

Thank  you Suzanne!

[Kassafrass]

I had no idea that this documentary was on YouTube, but I am glad that I know now as it seems I have something to do tonight

I own Four Sisters and was quick to do so when it came out as I was so excited to learn that there would be a book specifically about the girls that I love so much and feel close to (to some people's displeasure). I've heard of some of the controversy surrounding the book and the documentary but never was able to make heads or tails of it. Romanov fans on tumblr especially felt that the book was bad, incorrect in some areas and that Rappaport herself is an ableist and ignorant etc.. I guess I'm just surprised that these things haven't come to this board as much.

[Maria Sisi]

Has this been released on DVD, are there any plans if not?

[Ally Kumari]

I had no idea that this documentary was on YouTube, but I am glad that I know now as it seems I have something to do tonight

I own Four Sisters and was quick to do so when it came out as I was so excited to learn that there would be a book specifically about the girls that I love so much and feel close to (to some people's displeasure). I've heard of some of the controversy surrounding the book and the documentary but never was able to make heads or tails of it. Romanov fans on tumblr especially felt that the book was bad, incorrect in some areas and that Rappaport herself is an ableist and ignorant etc.. I guess I'm just surprised that these things haven't come to this board as much.

Regarding the Rappaport-witch hunt on tumblr: I was also a spectator and from what I gather the negative feelings grew from the fact that people made gifs from the documentary´s footage and Helen Rappaport protested in what the fans found a very arrogant and offensive manner to it, claiming the footage as "her own" (do NOT ask me wheter or not this is exactly what happened). Suddenly everything Rappaport was hated, even though previously everyone went gaga over Four Sisters. I have seen the documentary and read the book, and I find nothing really wrong with either, perhaps only that the "four" sisters is really just "one and a half" (Olga and Tatiana) with Maria and Anastasia mostly mentioned as "being there too". But then again there is considerrably less info about the younger sisters, so the author did what she could.