Author Topic: Diaries of NAOTMAA  (Read 56258 times)

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2009, 01:03:21 AM »
Dear Sarah,

As someone who knows a great deal about OTMAA yourself, how important are the diaries as source material for insights into their psyches, do you think? I sometimes get the impression from young people that I know who are interested in their lives that they (the young people) are projecting onto them their own adolescent wishes/fears/interests/behaviors, whatever. Are the surviving letters better indications of their personalities than the diaries? I'm not saying that the diaries don't help, mind you. But if they were written as semi-public documents (and Alexandra's note to Nicholas seems to clinch the idea that she was reading them, no?), then I should think that they would be limited in terms of self-revelation.

Simon

In both cases I think the IF's direct self-revelation is limited, but there are distinct differences between the two breeds of documents.

Out of the Romanov diaries I've read in entirety so far (Olga 1913, Aleksei 1916, Aleksei 1918, Alexandra 1918) I'd have to say Olga's comes closest to conveying a sense of personality. Aleksei's and Alexandra's diaries are very perfunctory and rather terse -- especially Alexandra's. It's difficult to get any sense of "voice" from either of them.  Although Olga tends to write longer entries than her mother or brother and actually devotes some space to what she thinks and feels, she does so only in fairly broad terms. The translator of Olga's 1913 diary, Marina Petrov has told me that "Her [Olga's] writing is very simple and contains no deep thoughts or exquisite language, it's rather business-like." I agree with her; in fact, I don't consider any of the Romanov diaries I've read to be particularly introspective. Any emotional language is basic: happy, sad, stupid, boring, fun, painful, etc. Of course you can usually infer state of mind from the overall tone of an entry (particularly when Olga is crushing on an officer, for example) but not with much of any nuance or subtlety. So the real advantage of the diaries, IMO, is the opportunity to glean details about the IF's daily life and routine. And brother, minutiae abounds in the IF's diaries. (Notations regarding weather, lessons, tennis matches, dinner guests, illnesses, outings, and so forth.) They really function more as daybooks or agendas than what we'd call journals nowadays. Incidentally, the excerpts I've read from Nicholas, Tatiana, and Maria's diaries so far have not contradicted my impressions of the diaries I've read in full.

The IF's letters, however, exude personality. In fact, Alexandra, who kept such a painfully tedious diary, comes across like a force of nature in her letters, discussing everything from her daughters' menstrual periods to her opinions of government policy. Her passions and attitudes are impossible to overlook, and her writing is plainly off the cuff, replete with mistakes and meandering trains of thought. The children's personalities also become considerably more vivid in their letters, though not on quite the same scale as their mother's. Overall, I find Anastasia and Tatiana's letters display the most character in terms of style and expression (again, what you'd call "voice" in fiction), while Olga's letters from captivity come off as more somber and mundane to me than her sisters' do. Most striking is the family's obvious affection for one another. In contrast to their diaries, the emotion they display in their letters has an intensity to it that can come off as gaudy or theatrical to modern readers.

That said, if someone told me I could have access to the IF's letters or diaries but not both, it would be a difficult choice for me. Matter of face, this self-imposed dilemma intrigues me -- I'll have to think about that...

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2009, 02:28:47 AM »
This book sounds like a great one. Thank you, Sarushka for descriptions.

Only correction -- Aleksei began to wtote diary when he was 11, or I am wrong? Speaking about months(July/August 1904 -July/August 1916), to be more precisely. I think also A. wrote entries before bed. It's logic.

IMO, when man write letter to someone, it includes more emotions to that person, but when person is in love, or something happens with him/her, of course it is more detalied in diaries.

A.N.R 1916 diary:

Credit goes to Frankie's Aleksei site. 



What a great contribution, Sarushka!
Nena, Thank you a lot!

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

tian79

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2009, 03:09:59 AM »
In Victor Alexandrov's The End of the Romanovs, there is a picture of a diary which Alexandra gave to Olga in Tobolsk for Christmas 1917. So it's possible that Olga's diary of 1918 still exists.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2009, 07:57:20 AM »

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2009, 11:33:31 PM »
Won't all their diary entries be ever published? All in the APTM site are only extracts, Sad.
I guess it wouldn't be possible. After all, it's hard work translating their entries verbatimly from Russian to English.

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

*Tina*

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #95 on: March 22, 2009, 07:46:02 AM »
Won't all their diary entries be ever published? All in the APTM site are only extracts, Sad.
I guess it wouldn't be possible. After all, it's hard work translating their entries verbatimly from Russian to English.


Their diaries are in the GARF, right? Btw, I think it's not that hard to translate them, I mean, if they are more people doing it it won't take that long... :-\

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2009, 07:46:14 AM »
As interested as we are here, OTMA's diaries probably wouldn't sell very well in the world at large, so I doubt whether a mainstream publisher would ever print them. A specialty publisher like Gilbert's Royal Books is the most likely candidate. And the best thing we can do to encourage GRB to publish more of OTMA's diaries is show our support by purchasing Olga's 1913 diary. If that diary doesn't sell well, they won't be likely to take on similar projects. Publishing is a business, after all.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2009, 07:48:12 AM »
Their diaries are in the GARF, right? Btw, I think it's not that hard to translate them, I mean, if they are more people doing it it won't take that long... :-\

Yes, but you have to have GARF's permission to print them, and pay for the rights to do so. Not many people can go to Moscow in person, buy the rights, translate the diaries, and print them.

*Tina*

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2009, 08:07:44 AM »
Their diaries are in the GARF, right? Btw, I think it's not that hard to translate them, I mean, if they are more people doing it it won't take that long... :-\

Yes, but you have to have GARF's permission to print them, and pay for the rights to do so. Not many people can go to Moscow in person, buy the rights, translate the diaries, and print them.

Oh, I see. You are right about that. :)

Offline Olga Maria

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #99 on: March 24, 2009, 04:52:40 AM »
As interested as we are here, OTMA's diaries probably wouldn't sell very well in the world at large, so I doubt whether a mainstream publisher would ever print them. A specialty publisher like Gilbert's Royal Books is the most likely candidate. And the best thing we can do to encourage GRB to publish more of OTMA's diaries is show our support by purchasing Olga's 1913 diary. If that diary doesn't sell well, they won't be likely to take on similar projects. Publishing is a business, after all.

Oh, you give very clear explanations, Sarah. Thank you for these.

Amazing colored fotos  by the most wonderful Yelena Aleksandrovna. Endless thank you very much!

Grand Duchess Ferah

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #100 on: March 24, 2009, 05:18:18 AM »
I completely agree with Sarushka :-)


Yes, but you have to have GARF's permission to print them, and pay for the rights to do so. Not many people can go to Moscow in person, buy the rights, translate the diaries, and print them.

And this is a reason why I believe we should be extremely thankful to Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov , for releasing a source that so many of us have been interested in reading for a very long time.

IrinaAlexandrovna

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2009, 11:16:56 AM »
Thank you Sarushka for the pictures

Offline nena

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2009, 11:36:10 AM »


May I ask something -- what he is meaning on note U :5 m, V. 7 m?

I think (can't say I am sure) he is meaning utom (in the morning) and vecherom (in the evening), but what is 5 m and 7 m (IMO, it is meters), deep of snow, maybe? Any opinions? But too deep, IMO. Or it is not symbol of meter?

I noticed, on that Wednesday, 10/23 February, is note of St. Holy Martyr Haralampii's day ( namedays, Easter and other holidays, etc. are usually mentioned in those books/calendars) . Also, I noticed, he didn't wrote dates, since all dates were already printed in his 1916 diary (according to a photo).
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 12:02:15 PM by nena »
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
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IrinaAlexandrovna

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2009, 11:41:03 AM »
I'm pretty sure it's not hour....maybe date?Can't say for sure...... I understand perfectly the letter but it make no sense those two to me..

Offline nena

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Re: Diaries of NAOTMAA
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2009, 11:43:06 AM »
It is diary entry, not a letter, from what I understood, I think it is not date, since it is already printed there as '10/23'. I understand a bit too. IMO, he wrote fast that entry.  ;-)
-Ars longa, vita brevis -
Mathematics, art and history in ♥