Did Mary Have Darnley Murdered?

[Elisabeth]

Here's your chance to defend Mary, or to put her on trial, as the case may be, if it's your belief that she was in any way involved, however tangentially, in the murder of her second husband, Henry, Lord Darnley, on February 10, 1567, at Kirk o'Field.

[helenazar]

 There is still a lot of controversy about Mary Stuart's letters discovered by Walsingham, letters that implicated her in plots against Elizabeth, and which became her death warrant.  Some historians believe that these letters were faked in a conspiracy to get rid of Mary, others think they were authentic and that she really was involved in various plots to overthrow Elizabeth and take the English throne.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Robert_Hall]

Well, she did have a right to the throne, but not sure if the "plots" were to that end or simply to get her out of "prison" and free to a Catholic sympathy. Was she really bright enough to consider plotting against Eliz. ?

[helenazar]

Was she really bright enough to consider plotting against Eliz. ?

Well, I don't think you need to be all that bright for something like that, if they were genuine - these plots didn't turn out so effective, obviously. Another thing was that she was not the one who originated the plots, she just went along with them, so that wouldn't take too much...

[Elisabeth]

Like many historians, I think Mary had a hand in it. It's highly suspicious that 1) she convinced a very reluctant Darnley to return to Edinburgh, where he could be murdered; 2) she left the premises of Kirk o'Field only a few hours before the gunpowder blast; and 3) she then married the man whom everyone identified as Darnley's murderer, Lord Bothwell.

Okay, now that I've played devil's advocate, surely there is someone out there who wishes to defend Mary.

[helenazar]

Like many historians, I think Mary had a hand in it. It's highly suspicious that 1) she convinced a very reluctant Darnley to return to Edinburgh, where he could be murdered; 2) she left the premises of Kirk o'Field only a few hours before the gunpowder blast; and 3) she then married the man whom everyone identified as Darnley's murderer, Lord Bothwell.
 

I think that even if she wasn't directly involved, she certainly didn't mind that it was done!  

[Robert_Hall]

I'll buy that.

[Elisabeth]

More of the Henry II and Thomas Becket, "will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" Obviously she didn't mind that Darnley was killed, but don't you think she might have dropped some rather broad hints that she wanted him killed in the first place? And said something to the effect of "make sure I'm nowhere in the vicinity when it happens," etcetera...

[Elisabeth]

Well, she did have a right to the throne, but not sure if the "plots" were to that end or simply to get her out of "prison" and free to a Catholic sympathy. Was she really bright enough to consider plotting against Eliz. ?

Mary was very bright. The idea that she was some ineffectual, helpless victim of events was the creation of romantic writers like Schiller. The historical Mary knew exactly what she was doing in plotting against Elizabeth - otherwise she wouldn't have done it over and over again for a period of 19 years.

I think Mary, like any ambitious political player in those days, simply gambled that the risk inherent to conspiracy was worth the potential pay-off. Either she would be Queen of England (and Elizabeth would be murdered) or she would die a martyr at the hands of her enemies. Obviously she would have preferred the former fate to the latter one. But either way she knew Elizabeth was going to pay. She knew Philip II of Spain would try to invade England at the slightest pretext, and of course her own execution would provide that pretext.

As for the Casket Letters - I tend to think that parts were faked, and parts were genuine. Which is a question for the historians to decide (and they've got lots of scholarly debate going on about it, as far as I can see).  

[helenazar]

... she might have dropped some rather broad hints that she wanted him killed in the first place? And said something to the effect of "make sure I'm nowhere in the vicinity when it happens," etcetera...

 You mean kind of like what Elizabeth said in reference to Mary herself years later?   Yes, I think it is very possible. Of course marrying his murderer didn't make things look any better!

[helenazar]

As for the Casket Letters - I tend to think that parts were faked, and parts were genuine.  

 
What are some of the criteria they use to determine this? Are they looking at handwriting, manner of speech, paper? I would like to hear the "technical" aspects of it...

[Mgmstl]

I am not sure if Mary had a hand in it or not.  I also think that Elizabeth would have disliked whoever was touted as her potential heir, Mary or her Grey cousins
through her aunt Mary Rose, Duchess of Suffolk.  

I am not sure Mary posessed the cunning or was just that silly of a creature to think that she would allow herself to be sucked into all of these plots, without realizing their implications.  

With all of her religious zeal & fervor,  I wonder if she would have let herself be involved with murdering her
husband, and cousin.  As Elizabeth wanted no involvement in regicide, when it came to Mary's execution for years.  

[Elisabeth]

I am not sure Mary posessed the cunning or was just that silly of a creature to think that she would allow herself to be sucked into all of these plots, without realizing their implications.  

With all of her religious zeal & fervor,  I wonder if she would have let herself be involved with murdering her
husband, and cousin.  As Elizabeth wanted no involvement in regicide, when it came to Mary's execution for years.  

I think Mary was an astute - and underestimated - political player. Far from being religiously zealous, she tolerated the Protestants in Scotland during her reign, working out an agreement very similar to that worked out by her cousin Elizabeth with the Catholics in England. And given her political instincts, I don't think Mary would have hesitated to have Darnley killed (as long as she thought she wouldn't be directly implicated), especially given the threat he posed to her son, James VI.

[moonlight_tsarina]

I don't really think she could have had Darnley murdered..unless she thought it was his fault for Rizzio's death..well than i believe so...

[Martyn]

There is an alternative theory that Darnley was planning to murder her by blowing up the house at Kirk o'Field.  I have just read a book that delineates this theory; I will dig it out when I get home and try to clarify this idea.