Author Topic: Young Alix - Before her Marriage  (Read 176166 times)

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Alixz

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #135 on: September 07, 2007, 06:48:24 PM »
You must be very excited and we are all sitting around acting like we are the proper judges of what you and your dad have bought.

I, for one, hope it is real.  That way you have a "treasure" and the rest of us don't.

Congratulations!

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2007, 08:58:56 AM »
I have a scan of her handwriting as a child I can post if you'd like to compare it. It's just lines of the alphabet from A to N.

Offline koloagirl

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2007, 06:43:10 PM »

Aloha all!

"Anna11" -- how very exciting!  Thank you so much for sharing the images of the lovely little book and letter with us!

I have to say that if I saw something like that at an auction -- I would probably be holding my breath until the auctioneer said "sold"!   What a lucky pair you and your Dad are to have
recognized something that most folks didn't realize the significance of.  Unbelievable what price you paid for it -- you are right, if anyone had advertised it as anything "Romanov"-related
it would have shot into the stratosphere!

Thank you again for sharing with all of us!

Janet R.
Janet R.

anna11

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2007, 08:31:01 PM »
Quote
I have a scan of her handwriting as a child I can post if you'd like to compare it. It's just lines of the alphabet from A to N.

That would be good, thanks. :D

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2007, 09:30:20 PM »


Condecontessa

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #140 on: September 09, 2007, 08:31:57 AM »
I hope nobody will start bashing/hating me for saying this, but I think it's not the real thing. I hope I'm wrong because finding a historical piece like that is way beyond cool. I say that it might not be true because of the handwriting. In the book Romanovs Love Power and Tragedy, on page 58 and page 63, there are samples of her diary pages. One was taken in 1885. It's kind of far away from the above letter. It's very uncoordinated looking. But then again, maybe because it was a letter to her Nanny, she had to make sure it was neat looking. I'm not a handwriting expert, I'm making no such claim. I compared Sarushka's pic to the letter and I just see minimal comparison to the handwriting. And also, would royalty label their private diaries or workbook with Prince of/ Princess of? I've never seen Nicholas II's diary or his childrens diaries and workbook's front covers in books with their title before their name. Please share your opinion and thoughts of this matter. It will be an interesting discussion with hopefully no heated arguments. Again, just my 2 cents. Please don't get mad. Is there anyway it can be tested that its a real historical document?

anna11

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #141 on: September 17, 2007, 04:24:03 AM »
Na that's cool. :D. It's good to get people's opinion, we always knew it could not be real, but we weren't going to pass it up just because it might be. It's interesting none the less.

But it would fit in with what else was at the auction. Of old German antiques and letters (such as letters from Eva Braun) and old Hessian stuff. The whole palace was looted and like everything was stolen, including the Hessian crown jewels and all old books.

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2007, 03:16:41 PM »
Hmm...interesting but I'd too say that it is a fake! First of all: the handwriting is not the Princess's; I have seen several letters she wrote at the same age. The paper...they rarely used paper with guide lines so as to learn to write straight.
The Princess - as a child - would never have referred to her governess as "Madgie" but Miss Jackson and never even used the phrase "Queen Granny". She called her "Grandmama" throughout her life and would have referred to "the Queen" in a letter like that.
Also strange: none of the Hessian family would ever have written "Prince/ss of Hesse-DARMSTADT" as it was not their correct title. Normally they simply would have written "of Hesse" as is to be seen in numerous documents or on photographs.
Would be interesting to see the red die larger.

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #143 on: September 18, 2007, 03:20:25 PM »
And: the palace you mean is Schloss Friedrichshof, the retreat of Victoria, German Empress Frederick. Her youngest daughter, Margarethe. was to be married to the Landgraf of Hesse Kassel and inherited Friedrichshof. During the American occupation after WWII the soldiers ripped all the Hesse Kassel jewels and many other objects. But as it was no darmstadtian palace there was certainly nothing belonging to Pcss Alix

Offline griffh

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #144 on: September 18, 2007, 04:27:01 PM »
You know, Anna, I would try to find out the email address of the Hesse Darmstadt archive and tell them about the music book and send the pictures and see what they have to say. There is a thread on the new Fabrice book and in that thread one of the contributors knows the archivist in Darmstadt.  Perhaps they might be able to help you contact the archivist. 

I have my hands full with another thread just now, otherwise I would try and be more helpful.   The thing that intrigues me is the red archive stamp at the top of the letter.  That really looks authentic to me and it seems it would be difficult to reproduce.  I can't help feeling that the book and letter might be authentic as Alix would have only been nine years old and the letter has that funny German to English feeling about it.

The other compelling bit of evidence is this; why would anyone go to all that trouble, including forging that archive stamp [just look at that eagle alone!]  and then sell the book and letter for $100.  Well Anna toodle pip and best of luck as your wonderful journey begins, as you unlock this marvelous mystery!!!.....Griff

Offline EmmyLee

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2007, 08:47:59 PM »
What an interesting find, especially if it turns out to be authentic! The handwriting seemed like it could possibly be from the same person, although the capital I's didn't match up, but there are other ways to write cursive I's. Perhaps Alix prefered the version in her letter to the one she practiced for her studies. Who knows? In any case, I too think it a little strange that she'd refer to herself as Princess Alix, but then, Alix never really forgot that she was royalty, did she?

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #146 on: September 19, 2007, 01:39:47 AM »
Why should Princess Alix write on paper with an "archive" stamp? Not seen a single document of the Hessian family written on ppaer like that.....

Offline Helen

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #147 on: September 19, 2007, 03:12:34 AM »
This is an interesting find, but I too doubt whether the letter is genuine.  This does not look like the handwriting Alix had at that age.  The earliest letters I have seen were from about 1878, written at the age of 6 years, when Alix just learned to write. In these letters one can see that Miss Jackson wrote the text of the letters in thin pencil characters on paper for Alix to trace in ink. That handwriting was different from the one in this letter. The examples of Alix's early own handwriting that I have seen all resembled the handwriting in the picture on page 58 of The Romanovs: Love, Power & Tragedy  far more than they resembled the handwriting in this letter. I don't think I have ever seen any letters by her in an upwrite handwriting such as the author of this particular letter had; as far as I know, Alix always wrote in italics.
 
The phrase "until Papa made Ernie dress up in his new husars uniform" makes me doubt the authenticity of this letter even more. Ernst Ludwig was to start his military education by serving in the 1. Grossherzoglich Hessischen Infanterie (Leibgarde)-Regiment Nr. 115. Ordinarily, he would have got this regiment's uniform only in 1886, but his father gave him one already in June 1884 for Ella and Sergei's wedding because "no prince could do without a uniform in Russia" [Source: M. Knodt, Ernst Ludwig - Grossherzog von Hessen und bei Rhein]. This seems to suggest that he did not even have a uniform before June 1884.  :-\
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"
"Ludwig IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine - Gebhard Zernin's Festschrift"

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #148 on: September 19, 2007, 08:02:41 AM »
Why should Princess Alix write on paper with an "archive" stamp? Not seen a single document of the Hessian family written on ppaer like that.....

The stamp is added only when the paper enters the archive!  ;)

Alixz

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Re: Young Alix - Before her Marriage
« Reply #149 on: September 19, 2007, 08:07:05 AM »
As to the archive stamp, that would have been put on the document much later after the letter was placed in an archive, not when the letter was being written.

If Miss Jackson, wrote out the words for Alix to trace over, then that would not be a good example of Alix's actual handwriting, just a facsimile of Miss Jackson's.

I would hope, for Anna's sake, that it was genuine, but I had trouble with the way that her elders were addressed as some others here have had.

Personal letter or not, there was a proper way of addressing elders in that era and children did not have any leeway in that.  It was proper etiquette and was always observed until the elder gave the child consent to change the way the elder was addressed.  Even in my own era, my mother never allowed me to call her friends by their first names until the friends gave me permission.  If permission never came, then even as I grew up and became a woman myself, I still addressed them as Mrs. .... or Mr. .....  That's just the way it was.