Romanov story

[Kalafrana]

Clearly I write and think differently from you! I like my fiction to be planted in reality.

I would add that I am not alone. If you read the comments on Tim M's 'Operation Rod of Iron, you will see that the discussion is nearly all about practical issues - currently whether the assassins would be able to find a working telephone box in Perm during the Russian Civil War.

Ann

[TimM]

This story clearly is more AU, like mine and Wakas's Days fic.

[JamesAPrattIII]

Any outdoorsman will tell you that you always boil water from ponds, rivers ect. in the wild no matter how clear the stream looks the water will in a lot of cases give you some thing you don't want.

A cabin in the wood in Siberia should have pots, pans, jars, cups ect along with some food, tools clothes ect even if it was looted. Time for these people to stock up on supplies and gear.

An arrow in Siberia in 1918? 1718 or 1818 yes 1918 no way. and taking one out of Tatiana's leg is something Dr Botkin would have problems doing let alone Olga.

For TimM on your posting Black Future the Germans called insurgents partisans later in 1942 they were ordered to refer to them as Bandits see archive.org "The Soviet Partisan movement 1941-1944 PAM 20-244

[Kalafrana]

To add to what I said earlier, the way people cope with practical issues in a crisis says a lot about their character.

Here you have three young girls who have led very sheltered lives, and have now just escaped from a massacre. This is a classic situation where people's true nature will come through. Do they have the inherent capability to rise above everything, and grow as people, or not?

I've just been thinking that this is probably the first time in the girls' lives that they have spent more than a few hours away from their parents. Now they are having to make decisions and take charge of things themselves - or are they just going to leave everything to Dimitri and Ivan?

James is right that getting arrows out is difficult, as they normally have barbed heads. If you want to make it straightforward, have to go right through Tatiana's leg, so that all that needs doing is to cut the head off and then pull the shaft out backwards. If the head is embedded, then things become much more complicated. Three possibilities:
a) If possible, push the head right through, or cut a channel to push it through, then cut it off and pull the shaft out backwards;
b) Cut away enough flesh around the head to release the barbs and then pull it out backwards
c) An instrument was developed in medieval times, I think, for getting arrows out. Essentially it was shaped like a pair of spoons. The surgeon needed to cut away enough flesh to get the spoons over the barbs, and could then pull the arrow out without doing further damage.

A bullet is more likely in this scenario, and with any luck, at the sort of range we're talking about it would go right through.

James is very well-informed and always makes sensible suggestions..

Ann

[TimM]

For TimM on your posting Black Future the Germans called insurgents partisans later in 1942 they were ordered to refer to them as Bandits see archive.org "The Soviet Partisan movement 1941-1944 PAM 20-244

Thanks, James.

[Превед]

Any outdoorsman will tell you that you always boil water from ponds, rivers ect. in the wild no matter how clear the stream looks the water will in a lot of cases give you some thing you don't want.

In Norway, a country of dedicated outdoorsmen and cabin owners, this (boiling the water) is not common and you very seldom hear about people getting sick from polluted water in the outdoors. Food poisoning from restaurants is much more common. Perhaps it's because of our chilly temperatures, even in summer.

Actually, I experienced my father and my brother getting violently sick once after a biking trip in the mountains. Either because they had drunk water directly from melting snow in an area with many rodents (never a good idea) - indeed the infamously suicidal Norwegian lemmings -  or because they had drunk (one!) beer at some craft brewery in a busy cruise port in the fjords at the end of the day. I had neither, so we couldn't tell.

[JamesAPrattIII]

Boiling water is always recommended from what I have read in US outdoor magazines like Field & Stream, Outdoor Life and Fur Fish game. These are people who live in Alaska Canada and the northern US. One account a man fell in a clear trout stream got a mouth full of water and had a bad case of Beaver Fever as they say for 3 weeks vomiting and dysentery.

On cabins in the woods people who live in them are usually busy in the summer getting food for the winter they also chop a lot of fire wood. A small cabin for one man would probably be just one room containing a bed, a fireplace or stove, a table, and a chair. It would be stocked with food, clothes, pots, and pans.  There would be a lot of firewood outside, a garden, most likely a shed for more food and spare stuff in case the cabin catches fire which does happen in winter. There would be a least a shot gun and possibly a rifle in the cabin. I don't think Tatania would bother adjusting the shirt she would put in on as is. Olga would put one on too since the only thing it looks like she is wearing is on top is Tatania's white silk blouse. I don't think the cabin would have had more than one or two pillows. This is from reading accounts over the years in the above magazines about people who live out in the woods in the US and Canada.

[JamesAPrattIII]

archive.org has FM 21-76 Survival, the US military's survival manual. I would say Dmitri and Ivan would know a lot on how to live off the land being soldiers and having to live in a country that has fallen apart. Ivan could have a peasant background.

What they would be wearing and have with them

Dmitri and Ivan army uniforms rifles, most likely each would have a pistol on them. If they took part in rescue mission they would have some hand grenades. canteen haversack and bread bag. Hip flasks which many men and some women carried back then.

OTM they usually wore a long dark skirt with a white silk blouse and boots.

I don't think they would bother with a tent. Its just to big to carry around especially if you are on the run. the men would have their overcoats and they could have picked up some blankets somewhere. I also don't think they would stay long at the cabin if they are on the run. They would bury the man boil some water, get some food and a few other things and keep going.

[Kalafrana]

I agree with James about the shirts - you can always say that fortunately the peasant was not a big man, so that his shirts were a reasonable fit on Olga and Tatiana.

They should also be able to find a rucksack in this cabin, otherwise all these useful items are going to be hard to carry comfortably.

How are they finding their way? Forests are difficult to navigate in unless you have a good map and a compass - all the paths look the same. If Dimitri and Ivan were doing a rescue mission they would have maps and compasses and know how to use them. You can find north by the sun using the hands of an analogue watch, but that depends on being able to see the sun. what about the weather? From what I've read, Ekaterinburg is hot in summer, but there are periodic thunderstorms in which the heavens open.

Ann

[JamesAPrattIII]

Glad to of help Tim

I got most of my info on how to live in the woods from Fur-Fish-Game magazine see  furfishgame,com

I would also say the man had a garden and as Ann points out he would have had a least one rucksack and one or more haversacks. He would also have a few leghold traps and snares. Fur trapping is a big business in Siberia. He would also have a bottle or two of moonshine.

Navagating in the woods as Ann points out is difficult being officers Dmitri and Ivan would have had compasses but accurate maps of large parts of the Russian Empire didn't exist back then. Note in Soviet times a regular road map as we have in the US was a classified document. I would say this group would try heading northeast at first then head east for White Russian lines.

the condition of OTM at this time:
Olga looked sad, tired, weak and thin in the weeks before the murder. The murder of the rest even though she got away would of shook her up even worse. Getting wounded sure didn't help her. She is going to be a woman on the edge.

Tatania: She was naturally thin to begin with. The last weeks in the house she looked even thinner. However "the Governess" is still able to take charge and get things done. If she was hit with an arrow and it didn't hit bone there wasn't much meat to her it would have gone through. Also note this in not a western movie. People hit by arrows in the leg have problems walking for awhile even after the arrow is removed.

Maria: was still in her last weeks as strong as any man. She would have been shook up about the death of the others. She will be a big help in helping her two sisters along and doing any heavy work.

On drinking water in the woods as the man said about Norway yes there are places where the water is safe to drink. Like spring water right out of the ground. There are also lakes in places like the Boundry Waters Canoe Area where I believe you can drink water right out of the lakes there if you go out in the middle of one of them

[Kalafrana]

Tatiana and co will find a still for the moonshine in one of the outhouses. There are a couple of bottles ready to drink, and more in production.  May be useful to take a couple of sharp knives away with them in addition to the items James suggests.

They will be able to cut a walking stick for Tatiana from a branch. As to their general condition, the girls initially keep going on adrenaline, but when that runs out they will find things very hard, and the differences in physical condition will really start to show. THere will also be arguments between them when one wants to stop for a while and the others want to push on.

The Czech Legion was only a week from Ekaterinburg at the time of the murders, and distant artillery fire could be heard from the Ipatiev House. If they keep going north-eastwards, as James suggests, they will eventually reach the battle zone between the Czechs and the Reds, where they will need to be extra careful. Eventually, they reach a Czech patrol and are able to identify themselves. What insignia will the Czechs be wearing? I imagine they will be clothed in a motley mixture of Austro-Hungarian uniforms, civilian clothes and bit of Russian uniform, but will have distinctive badges. THey will be able to communicate with our party in German.

Just a thought. Instead of an arrow in the leg, Tatiana puts her foot into a trap.

Hope that helps

Ann

[Kalafrana]

Another point to bear in mind is that the girls have been confined in very small areas for almost a year, so they won't have been able to do much walking. Their feet will therefore be soft and prone to blisters. Olga and Tatiana have lost a good deal of weight, some of which will have come off their feet, so their shoes don't fit properly, making matters worse.

Ann

[TimM]

These are great tips, Ann.

[Kalafrana]

Blush!

I do a fair amount of long-distance walking, and though I seem to have fairly good feet for it, in that I don't get many blisters, I have seen plenty of fit people practically crippled by them. My worst troubles involve my little toes - my feet are very wide and they get squashed. Result - wrap-round blisters and nails coming off!

The only way to prepare for long walks is to walk - in the shoes and socks you are going to use and gradually increasing the distances. Provided their boots fit properly, then Dimitri and Ivan will probably be all right, but the girls will suffer 

[infanta]

Another point to bear in mind is that the girls have been confined in very small areas for almost a year, so they won't have been able to do much walking. Their feet will therefore be soft and prone to blisters. Olga and Tatiana have lost a good deal of weight, some of which will have come off their feet, so their shoes don't fit properly, making matters worse.

Ann

Oh my, seriously? Is it relevant if they get blisters or not? Besides, yes, they lost weight, but unless you're 300 lbs your feet won't get skinnier.