Author Topic: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg  (Read 40897 times)

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Offline otmafan

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The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« on: February 01, 2005, 07:59:35 PM »
I found this picture on ebay of Duchesses Altburg and Ingeborg von Oldenburg. Can anyone tell me about these girls? I haven't heard of them before.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by otmafan »

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2005, 08:15:28 PM »
Duchess Altburg married the future Fürst Josias of Waldeck-Pyrmont, who reached infamy by being a convinced Nazi supporter.  Altburg was suspected of hosting SS get-togethers well after the end of World War II.  she died in 2001 aged 98.

Duchess Ingeborg married Prince Stephan zu Schaumburg-Lippe in 1921. she died in 1996 aged 95.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2005, 08:36:41 PM »
They were the half-sisters of Princess Sophie who married Kaiser Wilhelm's son Eitel Friedrich (see thread on Kaiser's Daughters in Law for more info there).

Friedrich Josias was the nephew of Helen Duchess of Albany and Queen Emma of the Netherlands making him first cousin to Alice Athlone and Queen Wilhelmina as well as that other ardent Nazi Charles Edward, Duke of Coburg

I think Ingeborg's husband was a Nazi also, wasn't he?
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Offline otmafan

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2005, 08:39:18 PM »
How far apart in age were they? Were there any other children?

Offline PrinceEddy1864

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2005, 09:45:29 PM »
Ingeborg was born in 1901 and Altburg in 1903. They had one other surviving, full sibling, a brother named Nicholas.
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 12:14:48 AM »
As were many Northern German royals, the Waldeck-Pyrmont, Schaumburg-Lippe and other families sinned by becoming ardent supporters of the National Socialist movement.  Southern German dynasties felt the Nazis were an abhorrent bunch.  Of the Thuringian dynasties, only the Royal House of Saxony expressed its repulsion ot the Nazi movement.

It has always seemd to me that since Natinal Socialism was vehemently anti-Catholic, those German royals with faith allegiances to Rome, steered clear of Hitler and his bunch...one exception being Archduke Albrecht of Austria, Duke of Teschen, who seems tohave some Nazi proclivities.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2005, 12:49:05 AM »
That's what struck me as well--and which we touched on slightly in the Saxony thread and George in particular--how much the Catholic branches seemed more vehemently anti-Nazi. The Bavarian families, the Saxony kingdom, the Wurttembergs, etc...
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Offline Eurohistory

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2005, 08:50:36 AM »
Indeed, all while Prussia, Oldenburg, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, Hannover, Waldeck-Pyrmont, Schaumburg-Lippe, Lippe shared National Socialist sympathies...very strange...perhaps the source of what would be a nice case study although I can assure everyeone here that the families would ot cooperate.  :-[

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Offline Marlene

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2005, 09:58:40 AM »
Quote
Indeed, all while Prussia, Oldenburg, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, Hannover, Waldeck-Pyrmont, Schaumburg-Lippe, Lippe shared National Socialist sympathies...very strange...perhaps the source of what would be a nice case study although I can assure everyeone here that the families would ot cooperate.  :-[
Arturo Beéche



Actually not all the Prussians were supporters of the Nazis.  Auwi was a committed Nazi, but the same cannot be said for other family members.  His nephew Louis Ferdinand loathed Hitler and the party, and was involved with the July 20, 1944 plot.  

There is also no evidence that Ernst August of Hannover was a committed Nazi -nor his children although several of the children had to joined the young nazi party.

For many - let's make that millions - Germans, Hitler was the answer to their problems.  But not all Germans, royal or non=royal supported Hitler.  

Hitler and his cronies used the royals for their own means - but by the early 1940s, Hitler no longer had use for the royals and dumped many from their posts.

As for the religious issue - there are far less Catholic royals in Germany - Bavaria, Saxony, as the main ones - so statistically, there would be more from the Protestants.  This is not to say that all the Bavarians were against Hitler.  Rupprecht certainly was - but other family members had differing views.
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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2005, 08:40:20 PM »
Even among German Mediatized families, fewer Catholics were against National Socialism, while many Protestants Mediatized royals were enthusiastic about the movement.

Obviously we are not arguing that every member of a family who followed Protestantism was a Nazi party follower...that would be extremely wrong and irresponsible.

But to argue that if there had been more Catholic families, there would have been more of their members following the party is a flawed approach in my opinion.  Proportionally speaking, when one compares the number of Protestant German royals who supported National Socialism with that of Catholic ones, the Protestants come out the big winners by a considerable margin.

This is a topic that I would love to investigate further and more in-depth, as I think it is a thoroughly fascinating one!

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Eurohistory »
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Offline kmerov

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2005, 10:01:39 AM »
Yes, that sounds very interesting. You cant help but wonder why?
Didnt the nazi movement began in the catholic south of Germany. Im thinking of Hitler(austrian), and the Munich coup. Not that it has something to do with royalty as such.
I remember Christian X making his sister in law, princess Helena of Glucksburg, leave the country after WWII, because of her Nazi sympaties.

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2005, 10:20:16 AM »
Hitler's first foray into political mischief was indeed in the Beer Hall Putsch in Münich, bt it was an utter failure.

Then again, and we must say so, Germans in general at the time were not completely devoid of antisemitic feelings.  Europe has been, at times, quite inhospitable for Jews.

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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2005, 05:43:48 PM »
Quote
Yes, that sounds very interesting. You cant help but wonder why?
Didnt the nazi movement began in the catholic south of Germany. Im thinking of Hitler(austrian), and the Munich coup. Not that it has something to do with royalty as such.
I remember Christian X making his sister in law, princess Helena of Glucksburg, leave the country after WWII, because of her Nazi sympaties.


It's a strange irony that so many Catholic royals were strong anti-Nazis (and the Nazis had  strong anti-Catholic streak) and yet some major strongholds even after the fall of the Reich were in Catholic areas such as Bavaria. I toured the one bunker they had left in Berchtesgaden when I lived in Germany and we were told that all the others had been destroyed (and most of this one sealed up) in the years after the war as they were becoming shrines and pilgrimage sites. There was still some post-war Nazi graffiti carved into the walls.

Art--according to many stories that come out in Jewish periodicals, etc...they still don't regard Europe as all that friendly towards Jews. When I lived in Germany there was a big article about how the German tourist industry was trying to encourage Jewish travel to the synagogues and other historical sites of the Jewish faith. It seemed that apart from organized tours to labor and death camps, there wasn't a lot of Jewish travel because of bad memories. They seemed to be making some headway apparently but some bad feelings towards many countries lingered.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2005, 10:57:28 PM »

Art--according to many stories that come out in Jewish periodicals, etc...they still don't regard Europe as all that friendly towards Jews. When I lived in Germany there was a big article about how the German tourist industry was trying to encourage Jewish travel to the synagogues and other historical sites of the Jewish faith. It seemed that apart from organized tours to labor and death camps, there wasn't a lot of Jewish travel because of bad memories. They seemed to be making some headway apparently but some bad feelings towards many countries lingered.[/quote]


Europe has a serious and growing problem with anti-semitism - France especially so  - either the NYT or the WP recently had an article on this topic.
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Re: The Grand Ducal family of Oldenburg
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2005, 07:52:31 PM »
Curiously for me is that the majority of German Royals were Lutheran/Protestant, correct? Then, there would naturally a greater likelihood for more Protestants to have been in line with Hitler, just based on odds. What is more interesting is that Hitler's popluar support was far greater in southern Germany (Catholic), particularly Bavaria, than in the north (Protestant). Seems the royals were not very much in line with their subjects.
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