Author Topic: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?  (Read 19021 times)

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Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2007, 02:01:55 PM »
I think Carlton House could have competed with the smaller Russian palaces. 

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Alexander1917

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2007, 04:58:14 PM »
The Palace of Whitehall was the largest palace in Europe before it burned down by fire, at that time I really don't know where the Tsars lived but I would assume the Kremlin. 

I would really like to see how big Whitehall was.

-Duke of NJ
Peter the Great founded St. Petersburg in 1703 as new capitel city. He also write a law of buildings in stone. Before that they lived in Moscow, mostly wooden palaces.
Empresses Elisabeth and Catherine bit those very huge palaces later.

But its the same with the British RF. Maria Feodorovna worte " ...we moved to Gatchina. A huge palace with more than 400 rooms, but I only use 4"

Also the Queen only use today her Appartments in BP or Windsor.

Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2007, 05:14:25 PM »
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Also the Queen only use today her Appartments in BP or Windsor.


The Romanovs could go to Peterhof, Catherine Palace, Alexander Palace, Pavlosk, Gatchina, Winter Palace, Grand Kremlin, or others in the Crimea.  The Windsors never had that many grand palaces to chose from.  They have 1 liveable palace (Buckingham) and 1 liveable castle (Windsor) and some small country homes (Balmoral, Sandrigham). 

-Duke of NJ

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2007, 06:03:50 PM »
They also had Marlborough House, Clarence House, Osborne, Hampton Court, Frogmore, Kensington Palace, St James's Palace--except for Hampton Court, I believe all of them were occupied at various times by various royals during the Victorian/Edwardian eras. Plus, the UK (actually, not even including Ireland or Wales since the royals didn't maintain permanent homes there) is a lot smaller than the Russian Empire--there wasn't the need to have as many homes as they would've been on top of one another.
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Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2007, 07:51:59 AM »
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They also had Marlborough House, Clarence House, Osborne, Hampton Court, Frogmore, Kensington Palace, St James's Palace--except for Hampton Court, I believe all of them were occupied at various times by various royals during the Victorian/Edwardian eras. Plus, the UK (actually, not even including Ireland or Wales since the royals didn't maintain permanent homes there) is a lot smaller than the Russian Empire--there wasn't the need to have as many homes as they would've been on top of one another.
Yes, but can you compare Marlborough House or Clarence House to Gatchina?  They are not in the same league.  The Grand Dukes also had their own palaces, Marble, Vladmir, Nicholas, Mariinsky...(the others).  I know that the British never had as many male dynasts but the Grand Dukes had so many palaces. 

I guess this all goes back to the Autocracy vs. parliamentarism.

-Duke of NJ

Alexander1917

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2007, 10:59:09 AM »
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Also the Queen only use today her Appartments in BP or Windsor.


The Romanovs could go to Peterhof, Catherine Palace, Alexander Palace, Pavlosk, Gatchina, Winter Palace, Grand Kremlin, or others in the Crimea.  The Windsors never had that many grand palaces to chose from.  They have 1 liveable palace (Buckingham) and 1 liveable castle (Windsor) and some small country homes (Balmoral, Sandrigham). 

-Duke of NJ

What I mean is that the Russian and the British live only in an "appartement" how many rooms that mean but not in the total huge palace, castle....many rooms are for servants, maids, offices and so on.....

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2007, 12:41:10 PM »
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They also had Marlborough House, Clarence House, Osborne, Hampton Court, Frogmore, Kensington Palace, St James's Palace--except for Hampton Court, I believe all of them were occupied at various times by various royals during the Victorian/Edwardian eras. Plus, the UK (actually, not even including Ireland or Wales since the royals didn't maintain permanent homes there) is a lot smaller than the Russian Empire--there wasn't the need to have as many homes as they would've been on top of one another.
Yes, but can you compare Marlborough House or Clarence House to Gatchina?  They are not in the same league.  The Grand Dukes also had their own palaces, Marble, Vladmir, Nicholas, Mariinsky...(the others).  I know that the British never had as many male dynasts but the Grand Dukes had so many palaces. 

I guess this all goes back to the Autocracy vs. parliamentarism.

-Duke of NJ

I was responding to the assertion that they only had "1 liveable palace (Buckingham) and 1 liveable castle (Windsor) and some small country homes (Balmoral, Sandrigham)" not comparing their interiors. (Though even the lesser residences were often dripping with valuable objects d'art and paintings, tapestries, etc...).

I didn't include the lesser homes that were owned or leased for various royals (so as not to bring up the Grand Dukes palaces) but those that were owned by the monarch who either occupied them or 'loaned' them out at her discretion. Otherwise the list would have to include such places as Cumberland Lodge, Bagshot, Fort Belvedere, Claremont, Carisbrooke Castle (used by Princess Beatrice), White Lodge and some London properties. There was also Brighton Pavillion which was quite ornate but not used after George IV, I don't think. There seem to have been Crown properties scattered all over the country.

In addition, depending on how far back you want to go, there were much larger castles and palaces such as the Palace of Whitehall or Caernarfon Castle that ceased to be used by the monarch (sold, given back, etc) or the Palace of Holyroodhouse which is used very infrequently.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2007, 12:54:51 PM by grandduchessella »
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Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2007, 01:54:17 PM »
Why did George IV demolish Carlton House?  It seems to have been very, very grand.

-Duke of NJ

FaithWhiteRose

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2007, 01:59:00 PM »
I think the Windsors ancestry and heritage was better than the Romanovs, but the Romanovs ruled one-sixth of globe and had alot of land to build luxurious palaces on. Plus, most of those who visited Nicholas's court said that it was the most opulent in Europe. So, therefore, I think the Romanovs top the Windsors in being Grander.

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2007, 09:41:45 PM »
Why did George IV demolish Carlton House?  It seems to have been very, very grand.

-Duke of NJ

Perhaps too expensive to maintain? It was replaced by 2 houses eventually. Here's a photo from wikipedia (also some of the info on the house):

Main staircase



"Holland began working first on the State Apartments along the garden front, the principal reception rooms of the house. Construction commenced in 1784; when these rooms were visited in September 1785 by the usually critical Horace Walpole, he was impressed, writing that when completed, Carlton House would be "the most perfect in Europe".

"There is an August simplicity that astonished me. You cannot call it magnificent; it is the taste and propriety that strike. Every ornament is at a proper distance, and not one too large, but all delicate and new, with more freedom and variety than Greek ornaments; and, though probably borrowed from the Hotel de Condé and other new Palaces, not one that is not rather classic than French.

By the end of 1785, however, construction at Carlton House came to a halt because of the Prince of Wales' mounting debts: his unpaid bills following his marriage to Mrs Fitzherbert amounted to £250,000. Parliament appointed a commission to investigate the huge cost overruns at Carlton House, and to draw up estimates on how much would be needed to complete the project. In May, 1787, the Prince of Wales contritely approached his father, King George III, and persuaded him to provide the money to finish the house. When work resumed in the summer of 1787, with a budget of £60,000 to finish the house, it was with the assistance of many of the leading furniture makers and craftsmen of France. (The onset of the French Revolution soon ended all French royal and aristocratic commissions.) These French workers who contributed to this second phase at Carlton House were under the design supervision of the Parisian marchand-mercier Dominique Daguerre, who was the interior decorator for Marie Antoinette; and who was the agent through whom furniture by Adam Weisweiler was imported for the house.

When completed, Carlton House was approximately 202' long, and 130' deep. Visitors entered the house through a hexastyle portico of Corinthian columns that led to a foyer that was flanked on either side by anterooms. Carlton House was unusual in that the visitor entered the house on the main floor. (Most London mansions and palaces of the time followed the Palladian architectual concept of a low ground floor (or rustic) with the principal floor above.) From the foyer, the visitor entered the two story top lit entrance hall that was decorated with Ionic columns of yellow marble scagliola. Beyond the hall was an octagonal room that was also top lit. The octagonal room was flanked on the right by the grand staircase and flanked on the left by a courtyard, while straight ahead was the main anteroom. Once in the anteroom, the visitor either turned left into the private apartments of the Prince of Wales, or turned right into the formal reception rooms: Throne Room, Drawing room, Music Room, Dining Room.
 
The throne room at Carlton House.Besides the magnificent French decor and furniture, Carlton House was hung with a superb collection of works of art. Many of the finest paintings now in the royal collection were collected by George IV for Carlton House. When Prince of Wales, George IV patronized contemporary artists such as Reynolds, Gainsborough, and Stubbs. With the Third Marquess of Hertford and Sir Charles Long acting as his art advisors, George IV also bought Old Master paintings by Rembrandt, Rubens, Van Dyck, Cuyp and Jan Steen. An 1816 inventory of Carlton House showed 136 pictures in the State Rooms, a further 67 in the Prince of Wales' private suite, and another 250 in other parts of the house."

Carlton House Throne Room

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Alexander1917

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2007, 07:57:30 AM »
I think the Windsors ancestry and heritage was better than the Romanovs, but the Romanovs ruled one-sixth of globe and had alot of land to build luxurious palaces on. Plus, most of those who visited Nicholas's court said that it was the most opulent in Europe. So, therefore, I think the Romanovs top the Windsors in being Grander.

Of course they were grander, not only for the richness but also for the fantasitc all day things from Fabergé, the rooms (Malachite hall), the very huge collections of Jewels, the very imposant palaces.... and also the jewel mines, gold mines etc...and rememeber the senior royals owned their own imperial train...and yachts.....in modern times unbelievable

Duke of New Jersey

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2007, 03:08:46 PM »
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Perhaps too expensive to maintain? It was replaced by 2 houses eventually. Here's a photo from wikipedia (also some of the info on the house):

I really like the way the interiors look, I actually posted some watercolors on the Royal Interiors Part II Thread but nobody seemed to care.  I guess George VI's debts just ruined the project and he had to settle for Buckingham Palace instead. 

-Duke of NJ

Alexander1917

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2007, 04:32:42 PM »
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Perhaps too expensive to maintain? It was replaced by 2 houses eventually. Here's a photo from wikipedia (also some of the info on the house):

I really like the way the interiors look, I actually posted some watercolors on the Royal Interiors Part II Thread but nobody seemed to care.  I guess George VI's debts just ruined the project and he had to settle for Buckingham Palace instead. 

-Duke of NJ

George VI?? rally??

I like the images...so we got an impression how it looked in the past ( and can look at photos todays looking) like the watercolors of Windsor, BP, Kew...

dmitri

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Re: Imperial Romanovs or Royal Windsors.Which is grander?
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2007, 11:49:43 AM »
The answer is a simple one. The Windsors still reign while the Romanovs died on the floor of the Ipatiev House in Ekaterinburg. The Romanov existence when they ruled was sooner or later going to cease. It was unsustainable. Check the huge number of palaces and servants required in Russia. It would have all had to be scaled back drastically even if they had survived.