discussion about orthodox religion #1

[rskkiya]

   I have been struggling with the possibility of converting to Russian Orthodoxy for some time... and I have come to the realization that I cannot make 'the leap of faith". I cannot understand "judeo- christianity" as a spiritual system --sin as a concept makes no sense and the semetic God seems too alien to me.
  I believe now that I was more interested in Russia and her culture than in "Faith". I once joked that I would love to be Orthodox, if only the Christianity aspect wasn't required for conversion.
Sorry if this upsets anyone -it's just my experience.
rskkiya

[helenazar]

 In Orthodoxy we are to struggle against our passions - and its amazing once you've started work on pulling up the big and obvious ones, the deep-rooted ones, how many little ones are hidden away as well - passions and sins which you never suspected but which have been there, quietly eating away at your soul.

I don't think passions are a bad thing, after all, if some humans didn't have strong ones, we would have no beautiful art or poetry or music, no great scientific discoveries even! So it just depends where these passions lie. Maybe you mean fanatacism, not passions? Fanaticism is not good, any way you look at it, in fact it is scary!

[rskkiya]

Why are "passions" bad?

[Georgiy]

Passions are things which take hold of you and turn you away from God, at least that is what I think. (I don't know if that is the Orthodox definition!) - so a passion for music that wasn't from God say, would produce music that rather than inspiring people or gladdening their heart or stirring up some positive response, would at the best leave a listening either with no feeling, or upset/angry/annoyed/negative.

Rsskiya - when I was at Uni, a time when I had no interest in religion as such but some vague wishy-washy notion of god, I once joked to a Christian friend that if I ever became Christian, it would only be as an Orthodox Christian. God must have heard me, and taken me at face value.

[rskkiya]

  I have been struggling with the possibility of converting to Russian Orthodoxy for some time... and I have come to the realization that I cannot make 'the leap of faith". I cannot understand "judeo- christianity" as a spiritual system --sin as a concept makes no sense and the semetic God seems too alien to me.
   I believe now that I was more interested in Russia and her culture than in "Faith". I once joked that I would love to be Orthodox, if only the Christianity aspect wasn't required for conversion.
Sorry if this upsets anyone -it's just my experience.
rskkiya

Georgiy I am happy for you, I guess... :-/
Unless and until I can understand the point in the concept of "sin" and the "judeochristian God" starts to make more sense and be less irrational-- I will have to sit outside the happy faithful...sorry

rskkiya

[helenazar]

... passion for music that wasn't from God say, would produce music that rather than inspiring people or gladdening their heart or stirring up some positive response, would at the best leave a listening either with no feeling, or upset/angry/annoyed/negative.
 

 And what does one do if one does not get inspiration from God, ever, but from other things? Should they just give up and not produce something beautiful, something they have incredible talent to produce? Sorry Georgiy, I don't agree that only things inspired by God will stir or get positive response from others, that is just so not true!

[Dashkova]

 And what does one do if one does not get inspiration from God, ever, but from other things? Should they just give up and not produce something beautiful, something they have incredible talent to produce? Sorry Georgiy, I don't agree that only things inspired by God will stir or get positive response from others, that is just so not true!

I agree with Helen!  What a very odd notion to suggest that a passion must come "from God" to be worthy.  Just how does one *know* whether God approves?  Does he *tell* you? Is it a feeling?
Passions do NOT turn a person from "god".  If you want to actually believe that, then best of luck. You are bound to have a rather dreary existence.

[rskkiya]

Dashkova
Are you Orthodox? I was simply curious - no insult intended, I simply seem to have no ability to "just believe."
rskkiya

[Georgiy]

Anything that is good comes from God whether we know it/recognise it or not.

Georgiy the Dreary!

[helenazar]

 

...I simply seem to have no ability to "just believe."
rskkiya

 Some people just don't have it in their nature to have blind faith, and I too am one of these people. I am unable to accept things that I can't get answers for or that make no logical sense to me. That's just the way I am, and I know that there are many people like that out there. This is what I meant when I said before that people are just "wired up" differently. "Blind faith" would be really going against the grain for this type of a person, it just would never work. I know this for sure. But it doesn't really matter, because I am fine with the way I am, and I don't seem to have any spiritual voids or anything like that, as some people often say they do...

[Georgiy]

Neither do i have a 'blind faith' - like I mentioned somewhere else, my Faith is annoyingly intellectual and I wish I could balance it more with the heart...

Another thought - our words and actions, no matter how seemingly insignificant have eternal significance, and last forever. I heard a kind-of joke about that, that while not necessarily funny makes a point.

A lawyer and a best-selling author were both in hell, ingreat cauldrons with raging fire underneath them. The Devil came along regularly and added extra fuel to the author's fire. One day the lawyer asked about this "Why do you keep on adding extra fuel to the author's fire?"
"Well," said the Devil, "Each time someone reads his book, I add an extra log to the fire." (The point being that by reading the author's work someone's soul was damaged and so the devil kept adding fuel each time the book was read and someone damaged by it.)

[helenazar]

Anything that is good comes from God whether we know it/recognise it or not.
 

So then can we just assume that anything that we are passionate about, and have great talent for which in turn makes us produce wonderful things, comes from God? In which case, why are passions bad if they come from God?  

[Georgiy]

Never assume anything! (Especially not that 15% royalty!!!)

[helenazar]

 The point being that by reading the author's work someone's soul was damaged and so the devil kept adding fuel each time the book was read and someone damaged by it.

What kind of a book are we talking about here, Georgiy? Could it be about a certain female pilot who may be a certain Russian Grand Duchess?    

[Georgiy]

I think the 'passions' we have been talking about which lead people to produce great music etc, may be better called talents. The other passions, the ones which corrupt, destroy and bring us and others down are not from God.