Why was Alaska sold?

[Moonlight_Densetsu]

I just found this out I had no idea that Russia sold Alaska to the USA ,was there a reason for the sale?Was Alaska the original name or was it named something else?


TJ

[Belochka]

Alaska is only 3 miles from the Russian coast, at its closest coastal point in the Bering Strait. During winter an ice bridge forms between the two land masses and can be easily traversed by foot.

The fur trade declined by the 1860's and the Russian-American Company ceased to exist when Alexander II sold the territory of Alaska to the United States by Treaty for $7.2 million on October 18, 1867. Today this day is known as Alaska Day.

The reasons why Alaska was sold were twofold:

1. It was no longer commercially viable to maintain, due to a steep decline in the animal populations because of the ruthless slaughtering of animals to obtain pelts.

2. Political tensions of the Crimean War with Britain.

Initially it's purchase was considered a folly, "a dreary waste of ice and snow" until the Gold Rush was exposed and the oil began to gush.

The name Alyaska was used by the local native Aleuts and became incorporated into the Russian lexicon by the Russian fur trader Stepan Glotov in 1759.

Today quite a few Alaskan natives hold Russian surnames, while Sitka, the Russian capital on Baranof Island still holds a Russian presence with its Orthodox Church and a few cultural attributes and ceremonies which are offered to modern tourists.  

[Moonlight_Densetsu]

Thank you for the information Belochka.I bet the Soviet Union would have had  good use for some Land near the only country that stood in the way of Soviet domination!Thank goodness it was sold.lol


TJ

[Dashkova]

According to some Russian and certainly Soviet historians, Alaska was *not* sold, it was leased to the U.S. (for 100 years, much like the deal between UK/Hong Kong).  This is what was frequently taught in Soviet schools.

Now, it's easy to say, as a westerner and/or American, that of course the Sovs were lying about this, and there are of course plenty of reasons to believe they were!

However, I for one, and probably many more people here also realize that the US government is every bit as disgustingly guilty of lies as the USSR ever was. I've known this all my life but was particularly made aware of it when I married first into a family of a Vietnam/POW MIA (A-4E pilot).

No matter what the US history books say about Alaska, they are every bit as likely to be as false as are the Soviet historians.

[Belochka]

Dashkova,

How do you explain that Alaska gained Statehood in 1959?

Why did the Soviets not reclaim "their" territory during the Cold War, especially since there were a number of U.S. military bases located along the coast?

[Belochka]

Now, it's easy to say, as a westerner and/or American, that of course the Sovs were lying about this, and there are of course plenty of reasons to believe they were!

Both my parents and I were taught by Soviet pedagogues that Alexander II sold Alyaska. A topic which we discussed around the table when I was young. If anything this commercial action would have highlighted the stupidity of this decsion on geo-strategic terms.

There was a debate on the Bill in Congress which voted in June 1868, months after the Americans took possession of Alyaska:

113 in favor of payment to Russia, 43 against and 44 abstaining.

The delay was attributed to the fact that there was an attempt to impeach Johnson at the time.

The sale was negotiated by Baron Edouard de Stoeckl.  

[LisaDavidson]

I really hope this Forum can remain a welcome place for all. If it becomes too politicized, we lose that.

Dashkova, I realize you were taught differently in Soviet schools, but the fact remains that Alaska was sold to the US, and there is a treaty to back this up. And, while the US government has made mistakes, I think it highly unfair of you to say the US government lied to its citizens to the degree that the USSR lied to its people.

As an American, I cannot sit back and allow that statement to remain unchallenged. You are certainly welcome to hate the United States, I just respectfully request you take it elsewhere. It has no place here.

[Dashkova]

I really hope this Forum can remain a welcome place for all. If it becomes too politicized, we lose that.

Dashkova, I realize you were taught differently in Soviet schools, but the fact remains that Alaska was sold to the US, and there is a treaty to back this up. And, while the US government has made mistakes, I think it highly unfair of you to say the US government lied to its citizens to the degree that the USSR lied to its people.

As an American, I cannot sit back and allow that statement to remain unchallenged. You are certainly welcome to hate the United States, I just respectfully request you take it elsewhere. It has no place here.

Excuse me, but where exactly have I stated that I hate the U.S.?  Does it not occur to you that I TOO AM AN AMERICAN.  I am a 14th GENERATION AMERICAN, as a matter of fact which I can prove in spades. *I* was personally never taught anything in Soviet schools, as I never attended any of them.  I do know a great many people who did, however, and was *****simply**** reporting what they told me. In my opinion ONLY, the "truth" they were told is absolutely NO better than the "truths" that have been told to me, as an AMERICAN citizen, by my own government.

Of the great many treaties that the US has signed over the years with nations within (meaning the American Indians) and without, EVERY single treaty was broken, in many cases before the ink was even dry.

As I stated earlier, being married into a POW/MIA family for nearly 20 years I learned a LOT about how the US government deals and does not deal in truth to its own citizens.

VERY close to the sorts of lies the USSR told to its citizens. The propaganda apparatus of both countries in question have many remarkable similiarities.

How this equates to HATE of the US is QUITE beyond me, as you were the one who put those words in my mouth.

Distrust of the US government?  Dislike of the US government? YES, as any *thinking* American citizen would have.  It's called being VIGILANT and honest about those (whether appointed, born to it, or elected) who DO lord over us and control what is and what is not told to the populace.

[Dashkova]

Dashkova,

How do you explain that Alaska gained Statehood in 1959?

Why did the Soviets not reclaim "their" territory during the Cold War, especially since there were a number of U.S. military bases located along the coast?

 

*IF* (and of *course* it's an IF) there is any truth to the "lease" agreement, it *does* make sense that the late 50s would be a good time to make Alaska "officially" a state, since the centennial of "Seward's Folly", in 1958, was at hand.

[Elisabeth]

I think it's always a mistake to compare the United States and Russia/the Soviet Union in terms of political history and human rights. Russia always falls short in these categories, which give a warped view of its overall contributions to humanity. Obviously, whatever crimes the U.S. has committed (slavery being one outstanding example) the Constitution is such that it guarantees an evolution of ideas and historical realities, such as we never witnessed in the Soviet Union at least. So.... in my opinion, what would be more productive for thoughtful discussion is a new thread, or even chapter/forum, addressing the Russian arts. Because one might just as easily argue, why are the Russian arts (literature, music, ballet, etc.) so demonstrably superior to those in the United States - ? If you want to compare. But I think a thread on the Russian arts is in and of itself a worthy topic, comparisons aside (comparisons, in my opinion, come cheap anyway!).

[Moonlight_Densetsu]

Did any of the Soviet leaders say anything about trying to regain Alaska?Im just wondering.Oh and what does POW/MIA stand for?


TJ

[Elisabeth]

POW stands for Prisoner of War. Sometimes it appears as PoW. MIA stands for Missing in Action.

[Dashkova]

I think it's always a mistake to compare the United States and Russia/the Soviet Union in terms of political history and human rights. Russia always falls short in these categories, which give a warped view of its overall contributions to humanity. Obviously, whatever crimes the U.S. has committed (slavery being one outstanding example) the Constitution is such that it guarantees an evolution of ideas and historical realities, such as we never witnessed in the Soviet Union at least. So.... in my opinion, what would be more productive for thoughtful discussion is a new thread, or even chapter/forum, addressing the Russian arts. Because one might just as easily argue, why are the Russian arts (literature, music, ballet, etc.) so demonstrably superior to those in the United States - ? If you want to compare. But I think a thread on the Russian arts is in and of itself a worthy topic, comparisons aside (comparisons, in my opinion, come cheap anyway!).

I think that is a very excellent idea, Elisabeth.  Oddly enough, recently I've been studying the influence Russian lit had on Hemingway (particularly Turgenev), and a comparison of the two countries with regard to the arts would be a fascinating topic.

[Dashkova]

Did any of the Soviet leaders say anything about trying to regain Alaska?Im just wondering.


 TJ

This is a good question, and I am sorry but I don't really have an answer, as I only know what was told to me by former Soviets, the youngest of which is in her 30s, so even late during the USSR schools continued to teach about the "lease."

Being an American, of course I was never taught this, just like I was never told that there was WAY more to the Cuban Missle Crisis than the US wanted to talk about (those bases in Turkey with missles, hmmmm??)

So, the only thing I can offer (and this is entirely FWIW) is that apparently the USSR was not happy about how things ended up with Alaska and had plenty to say about it, at least at some point, post-statehood. (which, right or wrong, from *their* viewpoint, would only be natural).

[LisaDavidson]

This is a good question, and I am sorry but I don't really have an answer, as I only know what was told to me by former Soviets, the youngest of which is in her 30s, so even late during the USSR schools continued to teach about the "lease."

Being an American, of course I was never taught this, just like I was never told that there was WAY more to the Cuban Missle Crisis than the US wanted to talk about (those bases in Turkey with missles, hmmmm??)

So, the only thing I can offer (and this is entirely FWIW) is that apparently the USSR was not happy about how things ended up with Alaska and had plenty to say about it, at least at some point, post-statehood. (which, right or wrong, from *their* viewpoint, would only be natural).

I lived in Alaska 1974 - 1978. During this time, I recall a Soviet official visiting Alaska who said something to the effect (and I am paraphrasing here from personal recollection) that, you can see why the tsars are out of power, because they sold Alaska. Truth is, no one knew then about Alaska's natural resources.

I do think that you may be correct, however, that the Soviets came to regret the sale, and this may be the basis of the stories about the sale actually being a lease.

The fallacy of this, however, is that had there been paperwork that indicated a lease, the USSR could probably have gotten the US thrown out Russia in international courts.