Why was Alaska sold?

[Moonlight_Densetsu]

 The overthrow of the monarchy in Hawaii was illegal right?How did the US goverment explain the situation, was it considered a good thing to the people of Hawaii?Surely if they could do that for some land, why not cheat Russia.I want to know more about this lease thing.


TJ

[Dashkova]

My mind is not stuck in the Cold War Darth Olga.Dont you agree the USSR could have had good use for Alaska?

I can't speak for Olga, but my guess is that she was remarking on your original tone.  The post quoted above reads differently from your first, which goes like this:

"Thank you for the information Belochka.I bet the Soviet Union would have had  good use for some Land near the only country that stood in the way of Soviet domination!Thank goodness it was sold.lol "

As though the US was the knight in shining armor keeping those dirty russkies under control. And how, thank goodness Alaska became a part of that perfect nation instead of the evil previous owners. I know that this very typical American (and the west generally. I remember from living in the UK and two commonwealth countries that attitudes were very much the same as American) mindset has come about thanks to little films like "Duck and Cover". Just from my own studies the fears vs. realities of the Cold War are STARK.

I think during the 20th century *any* nation would have been fortunate to possess Alaska, and have plenty of uses for it.

[Dashkova]

The overthrow of the Monarchy in Hawaii was illegal right?How did the US goverment explain the situation, was it considered a good thing to the people of Hawaii?Surely if they could do that for some land, why not cheat Russia.I want to know more about this lease thing.


 TJ

You make a very good point, TJ.
While I do love my country, through my own life experience and study of history I have not a shadow of doubt in my mind that during the past, certainly the present and the foreseeable future, the US is going to do whatever the ____(fill in the blank!) it wants, regardless of treaties, laws, scruples, and the like.
Why?  Because it can.  That's why the Alaska lease theory is at least something to think about.

[Dominic_Albanese]

How do you define a "challenge"?  Simply stating, "well, that seems extreme" isn't much of  a challenge, is it.

I have offered examples of why I believe the two systems were more similar than dissimilar, where are yours to the contrary?

Challenge, in this case, is defined as publicly disagreeing with what someone else says.  Your statement that the US Government lies as much as the Soviet Governemnt requires challenging.  As you have pointed out yourself, the Soviet Government made it their common, every day practice to tell their people what they wanted them to know, whether it be the truth or not.  Has the US Government done the same - sure they have - but the basis of the US Government is about truth and justice - is the US Government perfect, hell no!! - but to compare it to a regime like the Soviet Union requires someone standing up and saying they disagree with you.  Dashkova I'm not going to get into a mud slinging match with you as we both know you will win - however, I disagree with your statement, I think it is over the top, untrue, unsubstaniated, etc. etc. etc.

Enough said by me...

dca

[Dominic_Albanese]

Dominic your going to start a fight, I am at least interested in what she knows.

Moonlight - Whether or not Daskova is unhappy with what I said should in no way interfere with her ability or desire to tell you what you want to know - I didn't ask for your perception of what I said and I encourage you stay focused on your own conversation(s).

dca

[Dashkova]

Challenge, in this case, is defined as publicly disagreeing with what someone else says.  Your statement that the US Government lies as much as the Soviet Governemnt requires challenging.  As you have pointed out yourself, the Soviet Government made it their common, every day practice to tell their people what they wanted them to know, whether it be the truth or not.  Has the US Government done the same - sure they have - but the basis of the US Government is about truth and justice - is the US Government perfect, hell no!! - but to compare it to a regime like the Soviet Union requires someone standing up and saying they disagree with you.  Dashkova I'm not going to get into a mud slinging match with you as we both know you will win - however, I disagree with your statement, I think it is over the top, untrue, unsubstaniated, etc. etc. etc.

Enough said by me...

dca

All these things and yet you are unwilling to explain why so!  
Based on WHAT?
If you are not even going to explain why you feel this way, what do you think you achieve by simply saying: "Well, I think you're wrong! So there!"

How lame.

[rskkiya]

DCA?

   What is your point? Why not state your opinion so that we can understand it? It appears a wee bit silly to simply state that "XXX is wrong and I am right" and then not explain yourself ...


rather disapointed
rskkiya

[Belochka]

Both my parents and I were taught by Soviet pedagogues that Alexander II sold Alyaska.

Dashkova I will repeat what I stated earlier. This completely contradicts what you appear to have heard seconhand. At least I was physically in the classroom to learn this fact from Russian language texts.

It is naive to believe in the veracity of hearsay on this matter. So please drop it and try and accept that the U.S. Government purchased Alaska "true and fair."

As for Hong Kong, the world was fully aware about that particular 100 leasehold. Many of us witnessed the midnight handover ceremony between Govenor Patten and the Chinese People's Republic in the presence of Tony Blair and Prince Charles.

[Belochka]

It was, of course, WAY easier in the 19th and most of the 20th century to avoid treaties and laws, and on the eve of the Russian Revolution it makes sense that the US would begin to make moves to change the status of Alaska.

In 1916 the Revolution was an unforceeable event. No government around the world, nor any person was in the position to predict that course of events which occurred in 1917!

The claim that the US made moves to change Alaska's status (on the eve of the revolution), is short on logic!  

[Moonlight_Densetsu]

Moonlight - Whether or not Daskova is unhappy with what I said should in no way interfere with her ability or desire to tell you what you want to know - I didn't ask for your perception of what I said and I encourage you stay focused on your own conversation(s).

dca

In other words "Shut up kid mind your own business"sorry for another perception of an adult conversation but...I just didn't want this to turn into a fight didn't mean to offend you in anyway. If I did, my bad.I also would like to add...That I started this thread!! lol am I not apart of the conversation...is there age requirements?


TJ

[Dashkova]

Dashkova I will repeat what I stated earlier. This completely contradicts what you appear to have heard seconhand. At least I was physically in the classroom to learn this fact from Russian language texts.

It is naive to believe in the veracity of hearsay on this matter. So please drop it and try and accept that the U.S. Government purchased Alaska "true and fair."

As for Hong Kong, the world was fully aware about that particular 100 leasehold. Many of us witnessed the midnight handover ceremony between Govenor Patten and the Chinese People's Republic in the presence of Tony Blair and Prince Charles.

I have no reason to drop any such thing.
Regarding Hong Kong...well ...duuuh.

[Dashkova]

In 1916 the Revolution was an unforceeable event. No government around the world, nor any person was in the position to predict that course of events which occurred in 1917!

The claim that the US made moves to change Alaska's status (on the eve of the revolution), is short on logic!  

You are incorrect again. It is perfectly logical.  It may or may not have happened, but if it did, it would be perfectly logical.

[Belochka]

You are incorrect again. It is perfectly logical.  It may or may not have happened, but if it did, it would be perfectly logical.

Why bother discussing an improbability? I am not incorrect on the published facts on this issue, whether they be Russian, Soviet or in English.

Why you prefer to argue in favor of of untested information defies all standards of cogent reasoning?

[Belochka]

Regarding Hong Kong...well ...duuuh.

Words failing you?

If you cannot respond politely, then it is best not to say anything at all.

[Dashkova]

Words failing you?

If you cannot respond politely, then it is best not to say anything at all.

Perhaps if you removed your head from your posterior and thought that perhaps not everyone has the kind of TIME you have to troll these boards, you would understand short comments lacking in detail.

I am on my way to the hospital, where my mother is having surgery, (this among two other serious matters going on in my life, involving my child), which is why I was up (sleepless) at 4 a.m. answering your posts, which I still say are no more valid than my own.

Sorry, I don't have time for your games.