Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich

[investigator]

I am really satisfied with this thread because all of us have been able to convey our views on this topic.  I too believe that more investigation is required because the bodies of alexie and one of the girls are still missing and also the rest of the remains of the family members is still questionable because the russian orthodox church did not authorize the burial that took place in 1998.  

[BobAtchison]

Investigator:

The Moscow Patriarchate officially did not recognise the remains, however I know the Patriarch has visited the remains and has told other bishops that the remains are those of the family.

I cannnot explain why the church took the position it did.  I know some in the church also resurrected some of the bizarre theories of heads in barrels and Jewish/Masonic plots at the same time as alternatives.

Bob

[Nick_Nicholson]

Dear Bob and all,

I can answer the question about the church recognition as it was explained to me.

The reason that the Patriarchal branch of the Orthodox Church (as opposed to the Synodal Branch in exile) refused to recognize the bones has nothing to do with whether or not they doubted the veracity of the DNA evidence.

The Romanovs were declared saints by the Church in Exile in the 1980s, and only by the Moscow Patriarchate in 2000.

The two churches have been in a tense and difficult negotiation since the fall of communism about reunification.  Much of the acrimony has to do with real estate in the Holy Land and around the world.

One of the requirements of the Church in exile was that Moscow recognize the 1980's canonization of the Imperial Family.  Moscow did so in 2000.

This is the problem -- the ritual for burial of saints is one religious service, while the interrment of an imperial family member is another.  The bones and relics of saints are supposed to be venerated in churches, not to be buried.

By "not recognizing" the bones, the Moscow church was able to allow the interrment in the Sts. Peter and Paul Fortress without having to open the sainthood issue with the Russian government.

Now that the martyrs are buried, and the Church has recognized them, they are already interred, and the Patriarchate doesn't need to worry about dividing and distributing the bones as relics.

Once the church in Ekaterinburg is finished I bet there will be discussion about moving some or all of the bones to the site of their martyrdom.

Nick

[Steve]

Today I discovered something strange. There are three diaries of Tsarevich Alexie known. The first - for 1916 - is preserved in the State Archive of the Russian Federation; the second - for 1917 - was discovered after the murder in the posession of the Ipatiev House guard  M. Letemin and the third - for 1918 - was published in the book Tsarevich Alexei by Princess Eugenia of Greece and was in the possession of the Greek royal family up until its publication (1990). Its present wherabouts are not known.

How did this last diary get to Greece?

[David]

In response to the conjectures that Alexei was privy to survival skills due to his boyish instincts or travels with his Dad during the war: Lets not forget just how pampered the officer class was in 1916 Russia. Even with the war raging, officers...and specifically, noble officers, lived lives far removed from the front line horrors. Lets not forget that, in the whole war, only one Romanov died due to battle wounds (a son of GD Constantin) and that was very early in the war. Nicholas lived in either his luxorious train or in the Governors mansion in Mogiliev. Dinner was at an elegantly set table and while the talk might have been soldierly, I doubt it was on survivalism. One gets the impression that Alexei was with his dad for male comeraderie and not soldierly training. And dont forget that theres a great deal of difference between hanging around a cossack and becoming one!

[Pravoslavnaya]

Dear David --

I think it was Robert Massie in 'Nicholas and Alexandra' that mentioned something about the tender cameraderie between father and son at Mogilev.  While Alexei's presence no doubt delighted the generals that surrounded him and his father and inspired the rank and file of the Russian army whereever he went, the greatest benefit to each was each other's companionship,  combined with a strengthening of Nicholas' own morale and a beneficial change of pace for the Tsarevich.  The boy was one day going to act in his full capacity as the Ataman of all the Cossacks, even if - as you have observed - it was going to be an armchair post (good thing in Alexei's particular case!).

[insight]

David...as I stated before I never said he was "Rambo" and asking questions of a Cossack doesn't make you one is quite true. Are you certain that the military cadets were not given basic survival skills? Are you stating this as fact or just an assumption? Boy Scouts are taught how to build a fire, shelter ect and that doesn't make them Special Operations.


 

     

[NAAOTMA]

Is there a preference for the spelling of this name?

About fifteen years ago, I became aware of the "Alexis pretender" who lived for many years in Scottsdale, Arizona. His story was later covered in Robert Massie's book about the ultimate fate of the Romanovs.

That gentleman went by the last name of "Lukian" and the similarity between it and the name of one of the men  that July night has always struck me as PERHAPS more than a coincidence.  Melissa K.

[LisaDavidson]

Melissa:

I believe that these are actually two different (albiet similar) surnames.

My Mom was introduced to the Scottsdale Alexis. She was underwhelmed.

[NAAOTMA]

The truck driver L. had a son just a few years older than the Scottsdale man who claimed to be Alexis Romanov. I have often wondered if there might be something to that connection.

As to the Scottsdale pretender Alexis, I never met him. I can say that his son had very very blue gray eyes that were unusual. The son was and is a very decent, genuine and totally private person. I think being the son of the Scottsdale pretender was not easy. Interestingly enough, they both played beautiful tennis and rode horses with a natural knack that was true giftedness. The father was a terrific polo player. So whoever the Scottsdale pretender was, he had some talents & inclinations that must have seemed "royal" to some casual observers, and those unusual eyes might have impressed some people too. Melissa K.

[stepan]

This Alexis of Anjou wrote a book in French where he claimed his mother was GD Maria. I think he was inspired to write this after "The file on the tsar" by Summers and Mangold was published in 1975. As we know they tell the theory that the women in the family survived and were brought to Perm.  It was long before the remains of the IF were found so the theory was plausible at the time. The real name of this Alexis of Anjou was Brimeyer and  he died in Spain in 1993. He was known to have forged various papers and titles. Mark Ferro  gave some credence to this story in his biography of Tsar Nicholas.

[MariaR]

Hi,
I'm new and not even a Romanov amateur, i"m too green for that even!  However, I've done a search on this board and can't find much discussion on Visaly Filatov who claimed to be Alexei. My husband is currently reading the book The Escape of Alexei. What is the general opinion on this "survivor"? I read the book long ago and remember feeling quite convinced, but I tend to let the winds of the written word blow me either way depending on what I am currently engrossed in. I very much feel like no one could of survived that horrendous night, in particular Alexei, but I never rule the impossible out.

Any thoughts for the newbie?

MariaR

[helenazar]

MariaR, welcome.  

There is a Vasily Filatov thread you may want to check out:  http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=loonies;action=display;num=1089372646

[MariaR]

Thank you so much~it was enlightening. I just must've been searching wrong. Ah, gee here we go: Age of search...I guess I should've put something besides 7 days in that!
Back to the board!
Thanks again,
MariaR.

[marina]

I agree with you everybody. That is incredible but not impossible; it is not the same. This man Alexis of Anjou was already a duc so he did not need money or a royal title. However, I can't believe that dictionnaries and historicals books are wrong since 90 years. Why Elizabeth II and her husband weren't at the burial of the family in 1998 whereas duc of Edimburg lent his blood for the identification. Do they know something but can't say it?