Author Topic: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich  (Read 244117 times)

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Alixz

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #480 on: February 10, 2010, 06:02:00 AM »
In Richard's THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR - Goleniewski is supposedly verified as the true tsarevich by a Mr. de Shishmarev (sp?) who claimed to have known Alexei and to have played with him at Tsarskoe Selo as a child.

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #481 on: February 10, 2010, 07:21:36 AM »
Re  Reply #9:  Correct, "Alixz."   See my related entry (#3) under the thread " Author Guy Richards."  Kyril (de) Sishmarev and the "Heir" split up as time went on.  I believe that (de) Shishmarev died in 1975.  IMO, he seems to have been an interesting, valid character.  AP
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 07:37:31 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Alixz

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #482 on: February 10, 2010, 03:32:12 PM »
I believed Kryill de Shishmarev to be a valid ex patriot Russian.

I don't know and don't understand his connection to Goleniewski or why he concluded that Goleniewski was the Tsarevich Alexei.


http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14570.0   Link to Author Guy Richards in the "books" sub forum.

Thank you AP
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 03:34:02 PM by Alixz »

Alixz

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #483 on: February 10, 2010, 03:37:39 PM »
By the way - I am making this "sticky" to keep it up with the rest of the claimants.

Offline Pegschalet

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #484 on: February 12, 2010, 05:43:19 PM »
Thank-you for all the information.  I'm just about finished with Imperial Spy.  This is the 1st of Guy Richards' books.  I have "Rescue of the Romanovs" and I just ordered "Hunt for the Tsar".  All are available on Amazon for low prices.  Mr. Richards was a respected journalist so I don't believe he made up his information.  At the time he was writing, it was very easy to believe someone had survived.  It was the height of the Cold War and he had none of the documents we have had the privlege to read about and of course he had no DNA evidence.  Based on the information he uncovered I can see how he reached his conclusion.  I also find Shay McNeal's book, "The Secret Plot to Save the Tsar" fascinating.  She has quite a bit of information but just doesn't seem to know where to go with it.

Based on the DNA evidence, their conclusions are incorrect but yet there seems an element of truth to it.  There is a story here, I'm just not sure what "yet".   Was there a failed plan to rescue the Tsar?  Was it propaganda?  My first step is to research the sources and then go from there.

Alixz

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #485 on: February 13, 2010, 10:07:59 AM »
Peg,

Good luck with your research.

I read THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR just after it was published and everyone thought that it was a true story.  I think that Richards did a lot of research and came up with what he thought was the truth.

RESCUING THE TSAR had not then been proven to be a hoax and a friend of mine and I actually went to the New York Public Library to see a copy of it.

I was very interested in it because the agent who was supposed to have rescued the Tsar and his family claimed to be descended from a Van Rensselaer and I have that name in my family.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 10:12:56 AM by Alixz »

Offline charley

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #486 on: February 27, 2010, 06:54:09 PM »
Michael Goleniewski is listed on the CIA's website. Also I have an acquaintance who worked in Army Intelligence . She was stationed in Europe before the Iron Curtain came down. I asked her if she had ever heard of Michael Goleniewski . She said that she actually recognized the name.  She said that the Polish spies came through and were processed where she was working at one point.  I got excited to ask her more questions, but she got very nervous and said that she was not sure how much of what she did was declassified so she couldn't say anything else.  I didn't press the issue because I did not want to get her in trouble.

What other spellings have been used for him?

Offline Pegschalet

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #487 on: February 27, 2010, 08:47:12 PM »
How fascinating Charley?  Could  you email me privately as I would love to interview your friend for my research?

Well the story is getting more and more interesting.  When Guy Richards was looking into Goleniewski he became aware of other groups who were investigating as well.  One was a group of Carmelite lay people.  The Carmleites are usually monks and nuns who live a cloistered life.  The lay people are devote Catholics who vow to live a life of prayer.  What is a group like this doing investigating a Polish spy who thinks he is the Tsar's son?

In "The Hunt for the Tsar" another Catholic character pops up, a priest by the name of Father Edmond Walsh, who bebops his way around Russia around the time of the Tsar's death.  He wrote a book about his experiences.  A later letter relates a story of seeing the Tsar and Empress alive coming off a gangplank of a ship followed by Father Walsh.  I need to track down his book. 

Offline charley

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #488 on: February 27, 2010, 10:50:07 PM »
How fascinating Charley?  Could  you email me privately as I would love to interview your friend for my research?
 

No offense Pegschalet, but if she can't talk to me, I don't think she can or will talk to a complete stranger.

 I actually have Father Walshes book. He founded the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown. Apparently he was involved in the Papal Relief Mission in Russia 1922. When he was in Russia, he interviewed people related to the murder of the IF and had all kinds of info about the family. I thought it was strange that he was sent to Russia to feed the hungry and spent a lot of time looking into the IF. I wonder if he knew the family. I remember a picture of the Tsar and he was walking somewhere with a Catholic priest. HHMMMM!?!
Here is a picture of him with McArthur. He doesn't seem like a regular Catholic priest.

Offline Pegschalet

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #489 on: February 28, 2010, 06:44:03 AM »
Very interesting.  Is his book easily available or like most Romanov books very expensive?  Also I wonder if his papers are at Georgetown.  Worth looking into.  Thank-you.

Offline Maria Romanova

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #490 on: October 31, 2010, 10:22:59 AM »
Have you some information about this claimant of  Alexei? http://www.romanov-memorial.com/pretenders/pretenders_poutziato.htm   :?
"As dirt has been versed on the refined person name of the Romanovs... All for the money!"

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #491 on: October 31, 2010, 11:12:07 AM »
Reply to "Maria Romanova":   While I have not done much of an in-depth analysis/research on this particular youngster, VERY basic scanning of resources gives little-to-nothing in the way of information on him.  Essentially the same information (i.e.  including him in a listing) is given over and over.  Seemingly ONE thing IS established for him:  He was the first (allegedly) of the imposters to publically appear in the line of the Heir's pretenders.  After being discredited, he seems to vanish.  Obviously, these types (of YOUNGER people, especially) did not awaken suddenly one day on their own and declare that they were the Heir.  It is my feeling that they were definitely USED by others to further THEIR own cause/s.  IMO, when these young "false heirs" had made their attempt at recognition and had been soundly denounced, they undoubtedly became "expendiable," to the extent that their subsequent disappearance could most likely have been tragic indeed. After all, WHO (or what cause) has the need to be further associated with a "has-been", discredited, youngster who says he is the Heir?  (Please note that I have used throughout this reply the word "youngster" to differentiate them as unskilled, inept imposters, as opposed to the later OLDER ADULTS who could analyze, think "on their feet" and be more evasive/believable in their replies, etc.)  I wish you luck on your inquiries.  AP.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 11:32:14 AM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline DIANE

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #492 on: September 29, 2011, 03:22:15 AM »
This was a member of the Cheka, G.I. Sukhorukov, who was assigned to go help dispose of the corpses of the Royal Family the next morning. On April 3, 1928 his memoir:... "It was necessary to begin digging up the corpses (after the attempt to burn them the previous night)...the first thing we came across was the leg of the last Nicholas.  He was removed successfully, and then all the others. To be precise, it can be said that everybody was naked, except for the heir, who had on a sailor shirt but no trousers."
hi! you say that Alexej was wearing a sailor shirt, but i always read and in movies is slways so that he had military uniform with hat too
am i wrong?
Sposibo


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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #493 on: November 11, 2011, 07:45:23 PM »
This was a member of the Cheka, G.I. Sukhorukov, who was assigned to go help dispose of the corpses of the Royal Family the next morning. On April 3, 1928 his memoir:... "It was necessary to begin digging up the corpses (after the attempt to burn them the previous night)...the first thing we came across was the leg of the last Nicholas.  He was removed successfully, and then all the others. To be precise, it can be said that everybody was naked, except for the heir, who had on a sailor shirt but no trousers."
hi! you say that Alexej was wearing a sailor shirt, but i always read and in movies is slways so that he had military uniform with hat too
am i wrong?
Sposibo
 Since there has been no follow-up to your inquiry, presumptively you have found your answer by now since this has been commented upon several times previously on the Forum.  If not, then here is your answer:  the sailor shirt served the purpose (at least on this occasion) as an undershirt. If I remember correctly, a fragment of such was found in the second grave excavation.                                                                   Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 07:54:10 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline TimM

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Re: Claimants of Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich
« Reply #494 on: March 07, 2012, 02:41:00 AM »
Re:  Michael Goleniewski

How he think anyone would buy his story (Yurovsky helped them escape, yeah, right)?  Like AA, he was lucky that, at the time, the fate of the IF was still a mystery.

Besides, he was too young to have been Alexei.  In 1961, when he first made the claim, Alexei would have been 57.  Goleniewski did NOT look 57 in the pictures I saw.
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